NOM

Because of this podcast, one can now see Joseph Smith all over the D&C instead of a "living Jesus" speaking. This entire enterprise has been a con. Yes I know its been said before, but I have been trying to take the moral high ground and assume there was something... anything... that helped it out, but Joseph Smith so blatantly manipulating using anything and everything about God in as immoral a way as I have ever seen. And if there actually is God, apparently none of this matters to it, so, there we go.

It is all just manipulation based on gigantic ego, just to get laid with girls. I mean this is overwhelming. Amen to the priesthood of that man. Joseph hoisted by his own petard. And the real hero is Nancy Rigdon. I loved how the podcasters and researchers said she was a badass. She was! Her example is going to be mine even stronger. She stood her ground, stood up and called the Prophet out and directly challenged him, and he had to back down and admit the truth. That woman deserves more accolades.

Apologeticsislying wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:31 am .....And if there actually is God, apparently none of this matters to it, so, there we go.

Oh, I don't know.....

Matt: 7: 15, 23
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.....
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

It seems to me God cared enough to give ample warning. I mean what do some people need? A big red arrow pointing at the individual with a sign saying, "Damn false prophet here!"? I think many people thought maybe God wasn't serious on the false prophet thing. He didn't REALLY mean that they would appear as humble, likable, enjoyable, trustworthy sheep. Right? I mean check out Henry B. Eyring. He's the most humble appearing, sheep-like man you could ever ask for. He even "bleets" when he speaks in conference.

But they don't hesitate to TAKE YOUR MONEY....

Admittedly, people are prone to be led astray and that's a sad thing. I consider myself a part of that group. But Heavenly Father also cared enough to give me a B.S. meter and eventually it won the day. I'm actually glad for the experience. It's helped me be a better person.

Additionally, think of how many millions and millions of BofMs have been given out. How many millions and millions of people have been contacted by members and missionaries and have rejected the Mormon "gospel". Mormons wear that failure as a badge of honor. They wrest the scripture that states "few there be that find it" to show that they are the true "straight and narrow way".

I reject that interpretation. If there was really great good and truth found in Mormonism, the church would be much more successful. As it is, it is not the small stone cut out of the mountain. Rather by comparison to the increase in Earth's population, the church gets smaller and smaller as it rolls down the hill on it's way to insignificance.

God cares. He just doesn't force people to give up their own biases and hard held family traditions. He allows them to work that out on their own timetable. And without going into a long explanation of free will, I think that's a good thing.

Otherwise, I agree with almost everything you've written. It's right on the mark.

A very fine correctional response Pale Rider. I enjoy reading this entire group of people and all your wonderful thoughts! You made my day amigo! I love ya bro!

Apologeticsislying wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:17 am I just listened to this entire podcast tonight.....I am stunned. This is the shelf breaker. This is the most intense, honest analysis of historical detective work I have ever experienced in early Mormon history. It is all a travesty and manipulation. Good Lord, we have been duped ladies and gents. The game is over. It's fake. It is genuinely, all.........f.a.k.e.

I listened to half of it on my morning commute and I'll finish on the ride home. Wow. What the podcasters have done really well so far, in my opinion, was to point out what Joseph and gang were saying publicly and comparing it to what they were simultaneously doing privately. Holy cow.

I listened to it again this afternoon with my wife. It's even stronger the second time. I am just amazed at the legwork these guys did to present such a case. The Sunstone presentation is one of the most powerful damnings against Joseph Smith in existence in my opinion. It's all here, it's all fake in Mormonism. Nothing in the D&C is Jesus, it's all charismatic Joseph. This demonstrates quite frankly he could and did pull it all off, every bit of it. No wonder the Spirit in me (if there is one, but somethin is yankin me old chain) seems to be encouraging me quite strongly toward the East and their views. Besides, they are dang fun to study!

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... ss-letter/

In case anyone else is interested.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:59 pm https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... ss-letter/

In case anyone else is interested.

Ah! Thank you deacon. I was just trying to figure that out.

Wow, thanks for ressurecting the thread, the podcast sounds great. I have quit listening to all of them, but this sounds worthwhile.

Apologeticsislying wrote: ↑ In Mormonism, God the all powerful who created the entire universe, cannot help fallen man enough to grasp and be able to communicate his truth without distorting it. God is *unable* or else *unwilling* to improve his own pinnacle of creation in order to get truth to the world. ***Let that sink in.***

That thought had occurred to me in the midst of my dark nights. I think the Mormon rebuttal here is decent when they say a large part of the mortal experience is making your own interpretations and doing the best you can where you will be rewarded according to the effort you put into understanding the crappy communication structure. Honestly, it was this thought that led me out of the church, because I did not get any more communication from god so I made up my own mind. But that is also what led me away from belief in a god that is intimately involved in the human experience. Where Mormonism breaks down in this respect is when your understanding does not line up with the prophets, or the bishops, and you are expected to take someone else's interpretations. I think you made a comment in another post about not having anyone else between you and God, I think this is the fundamental failing of Mormonism.