NOM

On May 12, 1844 Joseph Smith gave a sermon where he shared this idea: "My enemies say I have been a true prophet. Why, I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet."
I have read that statement uncritically long ago, but when I recalled it and read it critically today I noticed that it contradicts a basic gospel doctrine that I have been taught since my youth. For discussions sake I'd like to ask, does anyone else notice the problems with Joseph's words: "I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet?"
To be fair, I may be misunderstanding the intent of the remark, but...

Reading, listening, or even thinking critically is considered by leaders to be detrimental to the LDS and Catholic churches, and probably some other institutions. (See Pale Riders post of "Institutional narcissism.") For me that's a read flag for those institutions.

This reminds me of the self-serving claim of the Brethren speaking for God. Why do Latter-day Saints lack the discernment to see the men standing behind the curtain claiming to be the great and powerful Oz?

Yes. From Joseph Smith to Pres. Nelson all prophets try to keep the "curtain" (indoctrination) closed to hide the fallibility (reality) that shows their words as human ideas mingled with bible/ancient human ideas closed, and TBM's want it kept closed as well.

As an LDS I was taught as doctrine that those who sin against greater light are more sinful than those who sin out of lesser knowledge or ignorance. But here in this talk Joseph is saying he would rather be a fallen prophet- one who sins against great knowledge, than a false prophet- one who sins against little knowledge or who sins in ignorance.

It may be an insignificant point, but if Joseph had been speaking from a doctrinal viewpoint instead of merely mocking his enemies, he should have said he would rather prophesy in ignorance than in conscious opposition to truth.

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:06 pm This reminds me of the self-serving claim of the Brethren speaking for God. Why do Latter-day Saints lack the discernment to see the men standing behind the curtain claiming to be the great and powerful Oz?

Their critical thinking faculties either are undeveloped or have been circumvented. The hierarchy used some good old HeartSell(TM) on them when they were vulnerable.

LSOF wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:35 pm Their critical thinking faculties either are undeveloped or have been circumvented.

And, according to BYU-I president Eyring, using them is a sin that requires repentance.

Meet The Real God of The Bible | Francesca Stavrakopoulou PhD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMQciYeDHU0

This might be very interesting for the NOMinees.