Search found 485 matches

by AllieOop
Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:54 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Joseph Smith and the curse of the flaming sword
Replies: 9
Views: 416

Re: Joseph Smith and the curse of the flaming sword

Just thinking back to my TBM days when I’d go on splits with the missionaries and an investigator brought up Joseph Smith and polygamy. The missionaries enthusiastically chimed in that Joseph didn’t want to do it but an angel with a flaming sword threatened to kill him if he didn’t. It speaks to th...
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:11 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Holy Fetch! (Update…)
Replies: 38
Views: 2181

Re: Holy Fetch!

Susan Hinckley has a soothing voice and is able to articulate the problems very eloquently without anger. I'm not familiar with her, RR. How or is she related to Pres. Hinckley? I’m really not sure. I don’t believe directly related but I’ll have to see if I can find out. Thanks....I'm just curious....
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:10 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Stealthbishop: The Off-Broadway Play
Replies: 16
Views: 750

Re: Stealthbishop: The Off-Broadway Play

As some of you may know, when I was on the NOM 1.0 board I was put in contact through another NOMer with a researcher who was studying clergy going through a faith crisis (I was a bishop at the time). She flew out to me and I met with her over two days and she interviewed me and tape recorded our i...
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:00 am
Forum: Support
Topic: Holy Fetch! (Update…)
Replies: 38
Views: 2181

Re: Holy Fetch!

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:13 am
Susan Hinckley has a soothing voice and is able to articulate the problems very eloquently without anger.
I'm not familiar with her, RR. How or is she related to Pres. Hinckley?
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:21 am
Forum: Support
Topic: Holy Fetch! (Update…)
Replies: 38
Views: 2181

Re: Holy Fetch!

Also, my wife needed medication and therapy. Her faith crisis triggered significant mental health challenges as it does for many people including me 12 years ago. Let your wife know that you support her mental health in this journey and it is okay to get help if she needs it. My wife is doing so mu...
by AllieOop
Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:18 pm
Forum: Introductions
Topic: Hi
Replies: 6
Views: 2288

Re: Hi

Good Evening Everyone! I was active on this board in 2012 before my divorce. Back then I was in a mixed faith marriage and attempting to make it work. That is, until I realized the marriage wasn't healthy and not worth saving. I tried to check back into NOM shortly after everything settled only to ...
by AllieOop
Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:41 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

These men, like BY and George A, supposedly had their calling and election made sure. Oh yes, of course they'd received their 2nd anointing. It all plays into their warped mindset....what a cluster that ended in such a tragedy. My ancestor (Jesse N. Smith) writes about the 2nd anointing like it's j...
by AllieOop
Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:37 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

.. I do love answering questions though and learning more too! That learning thing is why I wants ALL the information. So I can learn more from people who are smarter than me, and have the ability to do this kind of research. I agree....that's what I'm doing too :) There is so much out there availa...
by AllieOop
Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:11 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Holy Fetch! (Update…)
Replies: 38
Views: 2181

Re: Holy Fetch!

Sister Ryder is having a faith crisis. .... I recognized something was up when I got home the other night and found her lying in the gutter, strung out on crack cocaine, wearing Victoria secret underwear, with an iced machiattto in hand. She was mumbling something about F the patriarchy! :lol: Love...
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:31 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

I'm stunned. Much worse than I thought. It almost reminds me of the Book of Numbers in the OT and how the Israelites were commanded by God to destroy all the men, women and children in their conquest of the "promised land" and then take the spoils. I wonder if those themes informed BY and his attit...
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:23 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:09 pm
AllieOop wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:24 pm
...
Believe it or not, I contained myself, haha.
Please stop doing that.

We need all the information.

ALL of it. :mrgreen:
Be careful what you wish for :lol:

I do love answering questions though and learning more too!
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:17 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

Did BY himself believe that these people from Arkansas were evil and deserved to be killed or did he know that they were good people and he was just wanting them killed for their property? Was he cynical or did he really believe this delusion he helped create? Well, I can give my opinion, but I bel...
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:24 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

Thanks so much for these posts Allie. This is really important to try to get a clear picture of this atrocity. I've learned a lot. Those statements by BY look like they needed more scrutiny by me in retrospect. I was naive about his motives. I can now see that they contain plausible deniability and...
by AllieOop
Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:17 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

I never had the privilege of meeting him in person... I worked with Will when we were both young men. Unfortunately I had no idea of his interests (or maybe they hadn't blossomed yet) and I was too concerned with trying to be a faithful Latter-Day Saint at the time to have allowed myself to take th...
by AllieOop
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:24 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

Thanks for the insight Allie! I wonder what will happen with Will Bagley’s research materials and information he’s collected now that he has died? Hello RR!! :) I would imagine his wife, Laura has all of his files, documents and writings. She is a researcher and historian as well. But, what a treas...
by AllieOop
Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:56 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

If one knows what was going on in Utah at that time (the reformation), the members were terrified of BY. Many had tried to leave Utah and were hunted down and killed. He ruled with an iron fist. I personally believe that no one would massacre members of a wagon train on their own, but only if BY or...
by AllieOop
Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:58 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

Wasn't there something weird about how the order not to kill was worded? Something about "Let the Indians do what they will." I thought there was a possibility that he was just asking for the members not to get caught and to blame it on the Paiutes. The message was written to Isaac C. Haight, who w...
by AllieOop
Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:24 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

I thought Blood of the Prophets by Will Bagley was a good source for a lot of the information. I'm not sure I believe BY ordered the massacre, but it's clear that he tried to protect those who carried it out, at least until it was politically feasible to throw one man under the bus. No one research...
by AllieOop
Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:44 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

As for the way things turned out, should we blame Joseph Smith or Mormon God? Those were pretty much the same thing at the time. Or, at least, one was the source of the other. I would add to the list the intervention of George A. Smith, who rode from Salt Lake City to St. George just before the mas...
by AllieOop
Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:26 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Replies: 34
Views: 2245

Re: What was the actual reason for the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

I know about the trumped-up lies that led to the massacre, but why were the people in the Baker-Francher train seen as such a threat that they had to die? After conversing with Will Bagley back and forth (and reading his books), I came to believe the main motive was wealth (I also must add that I b...