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by Palerider
Sun May 09, 2021 8:22 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Dating the First Vision
Replies: 4
Views: 145

Dating the First Vision

The following is an abbreviated excerpt from William Smith's history of his brother Joseph written in 1883. At the time, I believe William was affiliated with the reorganized church and claims no connection whatsoever with the Utah church. The interesting things are the dates and age of Joseph regar...
by Palerider
Sun May 09, 2021 6:15 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: New Apologetic Movie: Witnesses
Replies: 42
Views: 737

Re: New Apologetic Movie: Witnesses

"Because God will kill you (or me)" is a very convenient and all-purpose excuse. Why do you have to marry my teenage daughter? "Because God will kill me if I don't." I think they should keep using it. Why can't I see the churches financial records? "Because God will kill you." "Brother Hagoth, it's...
by Palerider
Sun May 09, 2021 5:01 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: New Apologetic Movie: Witnesses
Replies: 42
Views: 737

Re: New Apologetic Movie: Witnesses

Do you think the 3 witnesses saw anything at all? Or did JS just lead them in a group hypnosis session? I should have said "saw." No I don't think they saw anything, except in a mental/revelatory sense, as Jfro described. Whitmer pretty much admitted that. Think about what they said outside of the ...
by Palerider
Sat May 08, 2021 8:05 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: The fall of Communism/Mormonism
Replies: 13
Views: 301

Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

When an entity becomes good at making money and their original mission of saving souls seems to fade maybe they'll just become another investment firm like J.P. Morgan or Lehman Bros. giving people advice on where to put their money. Just think of all those commissions they'll be collecting because ...
by Palerider
Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Is forgiveness required?
Replies: 19
Views: 549

Re: Is forgiveness required?

I always thought that the requirement to forgive was too broad. Forgive and forget doesn't have to mean you just let it go, as if it never happened. Someone mentioned anger as being a normal emotion. It isn't bad to be angry. I agree. Anger serves a purpose. Now grudges can be destructive. Some peo...
by Palerider
Tue May 04, 2021 12:38 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Is forgiveness required?
Replies: 19
Views: 549

Re: Is forgiveness required?

As an added note: I feel like from the Christian perspective, forgiveness is a requirement. When accomplished in it's own time it actually helps the offended as much or more than the offender. I'm not sure reconciliation is required. I don't see this particular scripture hardly ever quoted in church...
by Palerider
Tue May 04, 2021 11:25 am
Forum: Support
Topic: Is forgiveness required?
Replies: 19
Views: 549

Re: Is forgiveness required?

Pale rider, I read this once before but it didn’t resonate at the time. It does now. Thanks for taking the time to post again. Can you think of an example where you can reconcile but not forgive? Toxic relationships come to mind. Understanding why they are, but not continuing to maintain it? Hey Re...
by Palerider
Mon May 03, 2021 6:35 am
Forum: Support
Topic: Is forgiveness required?
Replies: 19
Views: 549

Re: Is forgiveness required?

Ha! Just when I thought no one was listening. Here's a reprint of that "article" for what it's worth. (I don't usually drone on for so long.) ;) The LDS church (and others) are SO misguided on the forgiveness principle. They don't understand it and have actually corrupted it. I've written this befor...
by Palerider
Sun May 02, 2021 8:44 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: The Urantia book
Replies: 5
Views: 251

The Urantia book

I stumbled across this while looking for something unrelated this a.m. I'd never heard of the Urantia Book but in reading the wiki breakdown on it, it seemed to have a few parallels with the BofM. New revelations directly from Christ mixed with scientific concepts. Maybe closer to BofA ? Haven't rea...
by Palerider
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:27 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Keys To Sexuality
Replies: 15
Views: 719

Re: Keys To Sexuality

In my early psych classes we were taught that there's a difference between "instinct" and physical "drives". If you take a Canada goose and put him in a cage when it's time to fly south for the winter he will beat himself to death trying to break out and join his fellow geese. He has no control over...
by Palerider
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:53 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Why go to a "Membership Council?"
Replies: 23
Views: 948

Re: Why go to a "Membership Council?"

No one should ever walk into a Court of Love without intending to tape it secretly. Both because the Church fears it, and because once they get you behind closed doors without a record of what happens the gloves come off, and you have no evidence of anything they said or did. For Pete's sake, if yo...
by Palerider
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:50 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Why go to a "Membership Council?"
Replies: 23
Views: 948

Re: Why go to a "Membership Council?"

What's that saying, "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet"?

I think in the case of the church "A turd by any other name would still stink the same." :oops:
by Palerider
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:42 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Why go to a "Membership Council?"
Replies: 23
Views: 948

Re: Why go to a "Membership Council?"

alas wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:22 pm
nibbler wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:20 am
Add it to the pile of things that were relabeled but otherwise remained the exact same.
Should we start calling Nelson a prophet, seer, and relabeler?
Procedure steering regulator?
by Palerider
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:53 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: New Thread -- Natasha got exed
Replies: 15
Views: 600

Re: New Thread -- Netasha got exed

I think those boys at the top are extremely thin skinned and if you say anything contrary to their pet policies and say it's idiotic in the process, you get booted out of the club. Just the boys at the top? The entire church is thin-skinned when it comes to the church. It's almost like they know so...
by Palerider
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:44 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: New Thread -- Natasha got exed
Replies: 15
Views: 600

Re: New Thread -- Netasha got exed

Re: spelling I'm familiar with the common spelling of Natasha, but figured maybe this was some Mormon family's idea of being different so they spelled it "Netasha". It seems to happen a lot in Mormon communities. Not sure whether it's an attempt to be different or just a problem of illiteracy in the...
by Palerider
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:10 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: New Thread -- Natasha got exed
Replies: 15
Views: 600

Re: New Thread -- Netasha got exed

According to the letter she received from her SP the basic reason she was exed was because she told others that the brethren were wrong in certain areas of doctrine and she didn't use nice language in doing so. I think those boys at the top are extremely thin skinned and if you say anything contrary...
by Palerider
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:49 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Another Lawsuit
Replies: 13
Views: 717

Re: Another Lawsuit

They claimed they were not using tithing funds for real estate ventures when they actually were. Even the Quorum of the Twelve had no knowledge of that huge investment fund. The mafia could take lessons from LDS secrecy. I highly doubt the Q15 didn't know how big the fund is. The church, (that is l...
by Palerider
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:31 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Forced Turning Point
Replies: 143
Views: 7003

Re: Forced Turning Point

Thanks Hagoth, dogbite, and Palerider. I'm not really concerned about actually getting called as bishop. As I said, I haven't paid tithing in a long time now. There are at least 4 or 5 other guys who are just as capable and much more faithful (i.e. - they definitely pay their tithing). What I am co...
by Palerider
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:51 am
Forum: Support
Topic: Forced Turning Point
Replies: 143
Views: 7003

Re: Forced Turning Point

Believe it or not, the handbook says the presiding officer receives the bread and water first (Section 18.9.4). No idea why it needs to be that way, but it's in there. Oh, I'd believe it. This is exactly what the Jews and Pharisees did over the millennia. The codification of the law. "They teach fo...
by Palerider
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:39 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Mormonism my way ?
Replies: 12
Views: 588

Re: Mormonism my way ?

While it is tempting to inflict uncomforted and pain on others as they have done unto us, it is best to take the high road. I was the first out in my family, did not attend church with them, used love and logic (did have those hard conversations with family - the people I cared about). Best wishes ...