Search found 733 matches

by Jeffret
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:03 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Whether some do or some don't isn't the point. That isn't the argument here. The argument is whether ALL THOSE who do the stepping should be automatically labeled as oppressors or racists. This is hugely significant. A very revealing moment. It tells me that you and I are talking about two complete...
by Jeffret
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:03 am
Forum: The Coffee Shop
Topic: SLC Gay Pride Bashing
Replies: 23
Views: 1834

Re: SLC Gay Pride Bashing

Its really quite the evocative story. The gays leaving Pride being chased by a mob of clean-cut young men. The young man, employee at the store, standing at the doorway, barring entrance, getting pummeled and fighting for himself and others. And then the mob fleeing once they find their targets aren...
by Jeffret
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:43 pm
Forum: The Coffee Shop
Topic: SLC Gay Pride Bashing
Replies: 23
Views: 1834

Re: SLC Gay Pride Bashing

My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I...
by Jeffret
Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:34 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Nobody gets to go through life without getting their toes stepped on and nobody goes through life without stepping on a few. No one pops out of the womb in full emotional, social, psychological maturity. Do you find that most people experience that stepping- on and being- stepped on pretty equivale...
by Jeffret
Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:37 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

It certainly is since any of these relationships can be and often are mutually beneficial and well intended. Heirarchy doesn't automatically imply suppression, exploitation, or prejudice. Well, since we're talking about oppressed groups, I think we can safely assume that oppression exists. And that...
by Jeffret
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:05 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

People do it to those they perceive to be lower in social standing. So, yes, parents do it to children, bosses do it to employees, and whites too often do it to minorities. It is almost a measure of social standing, which is why it becomes so hurtful to minorities. It not only invalidates how the p...
by Jeffret
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:14 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Parents do it to their children. Bosses do it to their employees regardless of gender, race, etc. Friends do it to each other. Do you notice that your first two examples involve dominance relationships? That might be significant. And the author of the quote I shared was most definitely not talking ...
by Jeffret
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:15 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Not that I really have time to jump back into all this, but I thought this comment by someone somewhere else really summed it up. "The desire to condescendingly explain to oppressed people why their latest wound isn’t all that bad comes from the same place of bias that wants to silence oppressed voi...
by Jeffret
Sat May 26, 2018 10:53 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

No meaningful information. Just trying to stimulate your inner Captain Queeg. I'd appreciate it if you would clarify. Should I be offended? Another Penguin reference I had to look up. You’re hilarious Penguin! After a day of gunnery target towing, Queeg orders a turn to head back to Pearl Harbor, b...
by Jeffret
Sat May 26, 2018 7:42 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Here's my follow-on question: Does it help if we understand how similar all blacks in the Mormon Church are to abused spouses? I'll go ahead and share my answer. I don't think it does. This is for many of the same reasons that we already discussed regarding the stereotyping of all blacks in America....
by Jeffret
Sat May 26, 2018 7:26 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

moksha wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:07 am
No meaningful information. Just trying to stimulate your inner Captain Queeg.
I'd appreciate it if you would clarify. Should I be offended?
by Jeffret
Sat May 26, 2018 7:25 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

I would tend to say that no, we should not treat or see an entire group as any one thing. That becomes just another form of stereotyping. I have never found a stereotype helpful because they are wrong 3/4 the time. So, it would not help to see the entire group or even a specific individual that is ...
by Jeffret
Sat May 26, 2018 6:59 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Jeffret, did any black members of the Church appreciate the need for an apology to be brought to center stage? Sorry, but I really couldn't speak to that. I struggle to see the relevance to any of the current discussions here, but if you have some meaningful information on that point, please share ...
by Jeffret
Fri May 25, 2018 2:20 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

I'm just wondering, aren't we talking about relationships whether they be between individuals or individuals and institutions? Yes, but I think there are some differences between individuals or individuals and institutions. Some pretty significant differences potentially. To put it one way, corpora...
by Jeffret
Fri May 25, 2018 10:56 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Jeffret, I noticed after writing last time that you talk about using our understanding of "them" to treat them like other, weaker, not as smart, lesser. While I am talking about trying to understand them so we don't screw up by writing a hoax and hurting people. Are we understanding them so we can ...
by Jeffret
Fri May 25, 2018 9:02 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

FWIW, I think this is one of the most fascinating and enlightening discussions we've done here in a long time. That's why I keep posting so much. Sorry for my excessive posting but I think it's very interesting.
by Jeffret
Fri May 25, 2018 9:00 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Inspired by MoPag's comment, let me try a different line of inquiry.

Should we treat all blacks in America as if they are abused spouses in abusive situations?

For that matter, should we treat all women in America that way?
by Jeffret
Fri May 25, 2018 8:58 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

alas, I think at this point you and I are primarily flogging a dead unicorn. Not only is it dead, it never existed. My original comments were hugely based upon the precise context in which they existed and the exact phrasing that was used. Palerider has clarified that it wasn't quite phrased the way...
by Jeffret
Thu May 24, 2018 11:18 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

I actually thought the comparison to an abused spouse was pretty valid. It's an interesting question. Is it valid to take what we understand about the psychology of an abusive relationship and apply that to an individual's interactions with an organization or a community? Or even more to apply that...
by Jeffret
Thu May 24, 2018 10:27 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church apologizes for Racism!
Replies: 166
Views: 8804

Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

If they say that our voices or actions are causing them harm, we should withdraw and find better ways to support them. They get to be the primary voice to share their experience. Just wondering here. Isn't this kind of analogous to the abused spouse who is somewhat psychologically enslaved by their...