NOM

I'm not trying to exclude counter-examples from this thread, so share them as well. Certainly Oaks continues his hateful speech. In the recent discussion, my believing relative lambasted his statements and expressed grave concern for his impact. He will never change.

I thought it would be interesting to see if we can rescue some of the valuable parts of the recently deleted thread. (If the moderators don't mind. Let me know if you'd rather just drop the topic for now.) I found the observations about shifts within the Church to greater acceptance to be interestin...

Not even christ told the truth Can an imaginary character tell the truth? (Actually I think the best evidence is that there was some real person that the stories were based on, though that's far from certain. The question still stands, though. I think an imaginary character is quite capable of tell...

iwanttotalk wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:11 am

Not even christ told the truth

Can an imaginary character tell the truth?

more harm than good is done by insisting you need to dress to some standard. It just breeds a pharisaical culture. What if that's the desired outcome? Also, whenever you insist on respecting God through some ritual or other I think of some middle manager who has a superiority complex insisting on i...

You know, in thinking a bit deeper about this respect idea, it made me wonder if the Mormon God isn’t a bit of a dictator. He demands respect, and our silly leaders twist the English language around backwards saying that using Thee and Thou is a sign of respect and that is why we use “the language ...

Random wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:16 pm

Not Buying It wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:52 am

I kind of think some of those opposed to the ERA probably can't even articulate why they are opposed.

I am convinced that was true in the 70s with the men who were warning against ERA, be they Church Apostles or the priesthood guy down the street.

I don't see how it's any different today.

My guess is that arguing over the draft is moot in the modern era. It's hard to see this ever needing an actual answer. I hope not, but just because we haven’t fought a war in 50 years where we needed the draft doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. We’ve actually just been a lot luckier than those who c...

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:22 pm

She would never want any of her children on the battlefield but feels that there is higher risk with her daughters.

A lot of women already serve very capably in the U.S. military.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Flaming Meaux. There are some people who think it may result in a net harm, in that subjecting sexual distinctions to strict scrutiny may actually make certain programs which benefit women unconstitutional (e.g., government affirmative action programs benefiting ...

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:32 pm

Such as, gender and sexual preference fluidity that would allow child molesters to go free!

The text of the amendment was posted earlier. I can't see anything in there about child molesters.

Nor even about dogs and cats living together.

This may be crossing the threads a little but IF the ERA was in effect, wouldn't this sort of thing be unconstitutional? Or they have to prosecute the man as well? Basically. Utah is in the 10th Circuit, which has already ruled this sort of thing is basically unconstitutional. The scope of the 10th...

One of the reasons why the ERA is important is because it establishes the standard or the expectation. Then people know what is expected and most of the time they behave accordingly. Or at a minimum they try a lot harder to not be overtly out of compliance. There are always lots of little micro-aggr...

My point was that even private clubs (like churches) get legal and social pressure that forces change. Discrimination against African-descended members was fundamental doctrine that was sanctioned by scripture and prophets. Now it is disavowed. They hate to have to try to explain these kinds of thi...

Just as a suggestion, you could tell them very truthfully, "Our son doesn't want to be baptized, so we're going to honor his wishes. The church believes he's old enough to reason, so he reasons that he doesn't want to go through that." After that, the TBM family members are kind of stuck for a repl...

It can be hard hanging out around the edges of a Mormon community. If you give any indication of being involved they want to draw you in and make you fully involved in the community. I stopped doing home teaching some years before I finally stopped attending church. I didn't come right out and tell ...

Yes, and specifically fear that someone like Kate Kelly could take them to court and win. They have certainly noticed that even private gentlemen's clubs, like the Alta Club, have recently been forced to accept women. They might conclude that a constitutional amendment that requires equality withou...

I wonder if it comes down to them being fearful of women coming to expect equal treatment. Absolutely. The Church fears the ERA for the same reason it fears gay marriage. It undermines their patriarchal system. It calls into question their demanded exclusive moral authority. It disputes their claim...

I think, using the language of their time, this is what the Founders thought they were saying. Nah, that's clearly not the case. They considered women's rights only as a very limited subset of men's as they were granted by men. When they said "mankind" or "men" they meant males. And pretty much onl...

As I look at the above conversation to this point, it occurs to me that it may be more of a generational issue than a conversation about rights. By all means I am for women having the same rights as men. I have no argument there. The question is more one of understanding the way people of my genera...