Search found 838 matches

by Jeffret
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:46 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Shifting towards gay acceptance?
Replies: 31
Views: 1166

Re: Shifting towards gay acceptance?

I'm not trying to exclude counter-examples from this thread, so share them as well. Certainly Oaks continues his hateful speech. In the recent discussion, my believing relative lambasted his statements and expressed grave concern for his impact. He will never change.
by Jeffret
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:43 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Shifting towards gay acceptance?
Replies: 31
Views: 1166

Shifting towards gay acceptance?

I thought it would be interesting to see if we can rescue some of the valuable parts of the recently deleted thread. (If the moderators don't mind. Let me know if you'd rather just drop the topic for now.) I found the observations about shifts within the Church to greater acceptance to be interestin...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:43 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: "Faith" and "Lying for the Lord."
Replies: 14
Views: 518

Re: "Faith" and "Lying for the Lord."

Not even christ told the truth Can an imaginary character tell the truth? (Actually I think the best evidence is that there was some real person that the stories were based on, though that's far from certain. The question still stands, though. I think an imaginary character is quite capable of tell...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:41 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: "Faith" and "Lying for the Lord."
Replies: 14
Views: 518

Re: "Faith" and "Lying for the Lord."

iwanttotalk wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:11 am
Not even christ told the truth
Can an imaginary character tell the truth?
by Jeffret
Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:37 am
Forum: Support
Topic: Casual dress in church ????????
Replies: 29
Views: 1107

Re: Casual dress in church ????????

more harm than good is done by insisting you need to dress to some standard. It just breeds a pharisaical culture. What if that's the desired outcome? Also, whenever you insist on respecting God through some ritual or other I think of some middle manager who has a superiority complex insisting on i...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:47 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Casual dress in church ????????
Replies: 29
Views: 1107

Re: Casual dress in church ????????

You know, in thinking a bit deeper about this respect idea, it made me wonder if the Mormon God isn’t a bit of a dictator. He demands respect, and our silly leaders twist the English language around backwards saying that using Thee and Thou is a sign of respect and that is why we use “the language ...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:18 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

Random wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:16 pm
Not Buying It wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:52 am
I kind of think some of those opposed to the ERA probably can't even articulate why they are opposed.
I am convinced that was true in the 70s with the men who were warning against ERA, be they Church Apostles or the priesthood guy down the street.
I don't see how it's any different today.
by Jeffret
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:33 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

My guess is that arguing over the draft is moot in the modern era. It's hard to see this ever needing an actual answer. I hope not, but just because we haven’t fought a war in 50 years where we needed the draft doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. We’ve actually just been a lot luckier than those who c...
by Jeffret
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:31 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:22 pm
She would never want any of her children on the battlefield but feels that there is higher risk with her daughters.
A lot of women already serve very capably in the U.S. military.
by Jeffret
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:32 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Flaming Meaux. There are some people who think it may result in a net harm, in that subjecting sexual distinctions to strict scrutiny may actually make certain programs which benefit women unconstitutional (e.g., government affirmative action programs benefiting ...
by Jeffret
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:27 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

slavereeno wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:32 pm
Such as, gender and sexual preference fluidity that would allow child molesters to go free! :o
The text of the amendment was posted earlier. I can't see anything in there about child molesters.

Nor even about dogs and cats living together.
by Jeffret
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:22 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Breasts in the news
Replies: 31
Views: 1572

Re: Breasts in the news

This may be crossing the threads a little but IF the ERA was in effect, wouldn't this sort of thing be unconstitutional? Or they have to prosecute the man as well? Basically. Utah is in the 10th Circuit, which has already ruled this sort of thing is basically unconstitutional. The scope of the 10th...
by Jeffret
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:29 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

One of the reasons why the ERA is important is because it establishes the standard or the expectation. Then people know what is expected and most of the time they behave accordingly. Or at a minimum they try a lot harder to not be overtly out of compliance. There are always lots of little micro-aggr...
by Jeffret
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:21 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

My point was that even private clubs (like churches) get legal and social pressure that forces change. Discrimination against African-descended members was fundamental doctrine that was sanctioned by scripture and prophets. Now it is disavowed. They hate to have to try to explain these kinds of thi...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:26 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: It's been a while. What next
Replies: 33
Views: 1285

Re: It's been a while. What next

Just as a suggestion, you could tell them very truthfully, "Our son doesn't want to be baptized, so we're going to honor his wishes. The church believes he's old enough to reason, so he reasons that he doesn't want to go through that." After that, the TBM family members are kind of stuck for a repl...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:02 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Full Court Press
Replies: 7
Views: 399

Re: Full Court Press

It can be hard hanging out around the edges of a Mormon community. If you give any indication of being involved they want to draw you in and make you fully involved in the community. I stopped doing home teaching some years before I finally stopped attending church. I didn't come right out and tell ...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

Yes, and specifically fear that someone like Kate Kelly could take them to court and win. They have certainly noticed that even private gentlemen's clubs, like the Alta Club, have recently been forced to accept women. They might conclude that a constitutional amendment that requires equality withou...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:02 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

I wonder if it comes down to them being fearful of women coming to expect equal treatment. Absolutely. The Church fears the ERA for the same reason it fears gay marriage. It undermines their patriarchal system. It calls into question their demanded exclusive moral authority. It disputes their claim...
by Jeffret
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:51 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

I think, using the language of their time, this is what the Founders thought they were saying. Nah, that's clearly not the case. They considered women's rights only as a very limited subset of men's as they were granted by men. When they said "mankind" or "men" they meant males. And pretty much onl...
by Jeffret
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:23 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Church Renews Opposition to ERA
Replies: 62
Views: 2212

Re: Church Renews Opposition to ERA

As I look at the above conversation to this point, it occurs to me that it may be more of a generational issue than a conversation about rights. By all means I am for women having the same rights as men. I have no argument there. The question is more one of understanding the way people of my genera...