Search found 78 matches

by Keewon
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:51 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 5325

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

Gag! Oathlike allegiance sounds so much like the several BYU scholars who now refer to themselves as Disciple scholars who perform disciple scholarship. What the hell is that?! Disciple scholarship??? :lol: In other words, to give a loose translation, we will end up where the leaders end up in conc...
by Keewon
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:39 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way
Replies: 91
Views: 2732

Re: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way

It is not normal to be transgendered according to the LDS culture. Then leave the LDS culture. Problem solved. Except even then the problem is not solved. The LDS church uses its political muscle to impose its doctrinal views on members and nonmembers alike, as with Proposition 8. LGBT+ aren't dema...
by Keewon
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:41 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: RFM--"Unanswered Prayers"
Replies: 5
Views: 343

Re: RFM--"Unanswered Prayers"

It seems to me there's a selective bias that takes place even in peoples' own memories of their prayers. Memories of past events tend to change to confirm our current beliefs. There is also a huge bias in what gets passed along in church. If a person prays, thinks s/he gets an answer and the answer ...
by Keewon
Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way
Replies: 91
Views: 2732

Re: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way

Personally, I hope my lesbian, autistic spectrum daughter is still lesbian and on the autism spectrum, because that is who she is. I don’t want her fixed. Oh, when she was an impossible toddler, yeah I wanted her fixed before I killed her. I hope my color blind son gets to choose if he wants to sta...
by Keewon
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:31 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way
Replies: 91
Views: 2732

Re: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way

Keewon wrote:since they have to work harder to be parents
Sorry-- I meant "since they have to work harder to become parents", adoption and all that.
by Keewon
Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:52 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way
Replies: 91
Views: 2732

Re: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way

The participation in Earth or temporal life effects EVERY aspect of the human experience. So why should the gender issue be an exception? Whether it is the body or the brain/mind, everything is subject to imperfection in this life. The only hope we have is that a just God will make all whole again ...
by Keewon
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:24 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way
Replies: 91
Views: 2732

Re: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way

But the church sees it as they are born into the correct body, but their evil tendencies make them want to defy God and be the opposite sex. Even if they are XY but have a female body, well that can’t be that they are insensitive to male hormones, they want to be male because they are defying God. ...
by Keewon
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:27 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: So God... Ya Wanna Come Out and Play?
Replies: 6
Views: 359

Re: So God... Ya Wanna Come Out and Play?

They also take note of the world renowned physicist Richard Feynman, and several of his hilarious antics, which you can and ought to read more about in the book Surely You’re Joking Mr. Feynman! That is one of my favorite books of all time. Read it to my children once on a family vacation to Califo...
by Keewon
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:52 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way
Replies: 91
Views: 2732

Re: Elder Oaks Defines "Gender" for Us - In His Usual Bigoted Way

IMO, everyone interested in gender studies should read about the infamous "John / Joan" study, investigated by Dr. Milton Diamond of the Pacific Center for Sex and Society at the University of Hawaii. Dr. Diamond made a huge mark when he shined the light on a dangerously wrongheaded experiment by ps...
by Keewon
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:16 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Areas where science has forced the church to change their story/approach/whatever?
Replies: 42
Views: 2223

Re: Areas where science has forced the church to change their story/approach/whatever?

Evolution, to a certain extent. “The Church has no official position on the theory of evolution. Organic evolution, or changes to species’ inherited traits over time, is a matter for scientific study. Nothing has been revealed concerning evolution. Though the details of what happened on earth befor...
by Keewon
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:08 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Areas where science has forced the church to change their story/approach/whatever?
Replies: 42
Views: 2223

Re: Areas where science has forced the church to change their story/approach/whatever?

This one really is being changed by science because we now have excellent medical record keeping that can be used to clearly demonstrate that Utah's disease recovery rates are no better than anywhere else. One thing I find fascinating -- and I'm not looking this up before I post so forgive in advan...
by Keewon
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:10 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: A one-liner that captures your disaffection
Replies: 87
Views: 3837

Re: A one-liner that captures your disaffection

Many years ago I woke up one day, walked to the bathroom in my G’s and caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror and thought “oh God! wtf am I wearing?” A few years ago I woke up one day, walked to the bathroom in my colorful boxers and caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror and thought “I’m creat...
by Keewon
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:22 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: A one-liner that captures your disaffection
Replies: 87
Views: 3837

Re: A one-liner that captures your disaffection

My abbreviated version is geared more toward my last Stake President who was a hard-nosed lawyer by profession (who unjustly accused me of all sorts of waywardness) or my BIL who was a lifetime military man used to taking command in any situation and giving orders. That makes sense. And the blunt-n...
by Keewon
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:11 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: A one-liner that captures your disaffection
Replies: 87
Views: 3837

Re: A one-liner that captures your disaffection

"I don't think you're prepared to have this conversation with me..." Ouch. Zing. 'Doctor!' TBMs run full Dunning-Kruger, thinking they see the light and you don't, that you have been lied to, etc. They think they're the ones who get it and you don't. I understand this attitude- I've been there. How...
by Keewon
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:26 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: A one-liner that captures your disaffection
Replies: 87
Views: 3837

Re: A one-liner that captures your disaffection

How about this: "Science, viewed objectively, discredits the Church's claim that JS was a prophet." If there were just one teaching that he probably could not have gotten right without being a prophet, that actually turned out to be right when all the evidence was gathered and weighed, it would be d...
by Keewon
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:59 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens new Video on Book of Abraham With Kerry Muhlestein
Replies: 9
Views: 410

Re: Terryl Givens new Video on Book of Abraham With Kerry Muhlestein

*Sigh* I just don't have the energy to keep up with the endless tap dancing. As I've said before, I would just love if Givans (and his ilk) would sit still long enough to answer a couple of questions: "If the JS papyri turned out to recognizably be what JS claimed them to be, would that be scientif...
by Keewon
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:38 pm
Forum: Mixed Faith Relationships
Topic: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff
Replies: 59
Views: 4493

Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

In the past she was never willing to admit that evolution might be a thing because that would mean she'd have to draw a line between one generation being "children of God with eternal potential" and "apes." I well remember a conversation with one of the bishop's "science friends" on that topic. His...
by Keewon
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:31 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: Feeling Forced to Choose a Path
Replies: 38
Views: 1715

Re: Feeling Forced to Choose a Path

Your wife KNOWS that if a person digs into church history, they will find all kinds of problems that say the church might not be what it claims, but she knows the church is true. Wow, just wow! She knows good and well the church isn’t true like it claims, but the church is still true, like it claim...
by Keewon
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:34 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 5325

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

Just for those who are interested, here's a taste of what Givens is going to be arguing in his forthcoming book: https://faithmatters.org/what-is-the-book-of-abraham/ I just skimmed the front page, and had a sense of deja vu about an article written by Carl Sagan about the writings of Russian grand...
by Keewon
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:38 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: the Dark Night of the Soul
Replies: 21
Views: 920

Re: the Dark Night of the Soul

"...my spiritual progression as fake as anything in this world; just hoping that if I fake it, then the kids might find something to hope for, in the way that the thought of a jolly red elf stopping by gets kids excited and looking forward to Christmas. I've read the stages of faith, but again, don...