Search found 120 matches

by Keewon
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:34 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

Just for those who are interested, here's a taste of what Givens is going to be arguing in his forthcoming book: https://faithmatters.org/what-is-the-book-of-abraham/ I just skimmed the front page, and had a sense of deja vu about an article written by Carl Sagan about the writings of Russian grand...
by Keewon
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:38 pm
Forum: Support
Topic: the Dark Night of the Soul
Replies: 21
Views: 10963

Re: the Dark Night of the Soul

"...my spiritual progression as fake as anything in this world; just hoping that if I fake it, then the kids might find something to hope for, in the way that the thought of a jolly red elf stopping by gets kids excited and looking forward to Christmas. I've read the stages of faith, but again, don...
by Keewon
Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:48 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

It wasn't the church that had issues, it was me. But that wasn't what stopped me from believing. I didn't leave the church because I was "offended". But it showed me that after 50 years of faithful service and tithing payments there was zero trust in the relationship, which is the key ingredient in...
by Keewon
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:40 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

I remember a time when I started realizing that the puzzle wasn't going together as well as it should have. I knew some of the pieces were supposed to fit but didn't, although I could force them with a hammer. The box cover showed a New England church but my puzzle was looking more and more like a ...
by Keewon
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:12 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Book: The righteous mind
Replies: 12
Views: 6707

Re: Book: The righteous mind

Emower wrote:Right now I am reading “The Righteous Mind.
I've found this thread informative and thought provoking. I just wanted to say Thanks, Emower, for putting this out there. I definitely want to read the book. Incredibly relevant in this day and age!
by Keewon
Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:16 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

You're standing in a dark room examining a brick wall with a flashlight. You point the light at a single brick and see that it is cracked and crumbling. "It's ok," you say, "the wall overall is strong." ... You keep seeing damaged bricks but you never lose your confidence in the wall because you ar...
by Keewon
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:47 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Things I learned in seminary
Replies: 23
Views: 11431

Re: Things I learned in seminary

This teacher also had a collection of seer stones, which he claimed one of his students had "started" to see something in one of them. I'd like to have a crack at that! Me (student): "Hey, I'm starting to see something. It says... it says ... 'Russell M. Nelson is a fake!'" Teacher: "Gimme back tha...
by Keewon
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:50 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

But if you remove the book of Abraham stone, the arch falls. If you remove the Book of Mormon stone, the arch falls. If you remove the Jesus stone, the arch falls. Sorry.. I never got around to the punchline of my comment. Everyone whose shelf collapses has something in particular that triggers the...
by Keewon
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:46 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

But if you remove the book of Abraham stone, the arch falls. If you remove the Book of Mormon stone, the arch falls. If you remove the Jesus stone, the arch falls. I was willing to cut the church a huge amount of slack as a TBM. I could imagine God letting prophets flub up, perhaps even a lot, as p...
by Keewon
Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:21 pm
Forum: The Coffee Shop
Topic: Whats good on netflix?
Replies: 34
Views: 21638

Re: Whats good on netflix?

Amazon Prime series Good Omens, with David Tenant and Michael Sheen. About a devil and angel present in the Garden of Eden who build a friendship over the course of Earth's history then team together to fight against the hosts of heaven and hell to save mankind against Armageddon. With a little help...
by Keewon
Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:51 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today
Replies: 54
Views: 24771

Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

President Nelson saved the church from God! There is precedent, you know. Isn't that the point of a priest, to stand between the people and the vicious demands of divine justice? Didn't Moses do the same thing? Aren't they all shadows of Christ's atonement? I'm just saying that if you squint at it ...
by Keewon
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:21 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

I think that J. R. R. Tolkien did a better job than the BoA of wrestling with free will, the problem of evil, and our relationship to God in "The Lord of the Rings". Some FAIR scholars are starting to think that perhaps the Lord of the Rings wasn't fictional after all. How could the story be so dee...
by Keewon
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:55 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Seer Stone Video
Replies: 23
Views: 12670

Re: Seer Stone Video

This is very well put - I want to print it out and send a framed copy to the church history dept. I'm sure the church history department is well aware of all this. I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ...
by Keewon
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:47 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Magic
Replies: 32
Views: 14040

Re: Magic

... If that missionary is lucky this will pass, they will eventually find some mental pathways allowing them to compartmentalize mission and church culture (a great trick which will probably keep them in the church longer) and that year of hell will fade into their memories as this one really awful...
by Keewon
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:38 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: "Doubts are dangerous" - Elder Craig Christensen to LDS youth
Replies: 13
Views: 5269

Re: "Doubts are dangerous" - Elder Craig Christensen to LDS youth

Deacon blues wrote:"I know" stifles conversation.
That's the whole point...
by Keewon
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:35 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: "Doubts are dangerous" - Elder Craig Christensen to LDS youth
Replies: 13
Views: 5269

Re: "Doubts are dangerous" - Elder Craig Christensen to LDS youth

As always, the leadership tries to focus attention away from the actual problems to the mental state of the person who sees those problems. They never treat the scientific evidence that discredits Church teachings as, well, as scientific evidence. I'm old enough that I found out many of the main pro...
by Keewon
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:22 am
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Magic
Replies: 32
Views: 14040

Re: Magic

Tithing as "Fire Insurance" and somehow magically make your finances better. We have friends who came to the point financially that the choice was either to pay tithing or pay their mortgage. The kind of moment where their faith was being severely tested. (You can see where this is going, can't you...
by Keewon
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:21 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Magic
Replies: 32
Views: 14040

Re: Magic

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans. I am old enough to remember the GC conference talk this was discussed in. The speaker was very explicit: don't pray out loud. The devil can't hear your thoughts, but God can. And you don't want th...
by Keewon
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:23 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: What did you really learn from the temple ceremony?
Replies: 59
Views: 25678

Re: What did you really learn from the temple ceremony?

Don't get bent out of shape if you find out it came from the masons. I found that part out by stumbling onto a book on Masonic rituals at the King's English book shop in Salt Lake. I used to wander old book stores in those days, and peruse anything new or odd. As I flipped through the pages I found...
by Keewon
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:13 pm
Forum: Doctrinal Discussion
Topic: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring
Replies: 127
Views: 62360

Re: Terryl Givens steps into the BoA ring

Emower: The problem comes when we start trying to apply the word "truth" to things like whether Givens has it right or not. And, harking back to my scientific education, its not science unless it is falsifiable. Now I will support the argument all day long that the book of Abraham as Joseph describ...