Hello and Who am I?

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notforprophet
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Hello and Who am I?

Post by notforprophet » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:05 pm

Hello Everyone!

I'm new to this site. I've been lurking for a little bit and I've learned that it's a very welcoming, open-minded place and I'm pretty excited about that.
Just to tell you a bit about myself and my transition out of the church:

I was born in the church and was always 100% convinced of its truthfulness. I served a mission in central america and unbeknownst to me this is where my journey began. I hated the mission. I felt like absolute human garbage the entire time. I never felt like I was doing enough or giving enough of my1self. Never mind the fact that I was a 20yo kid giving my life and my money for free; I felt like I wasn't giving enough, and that Heavenly Father was not pleased with me.

Not long after my mission I was married in the temple (as per the mormon recipe) and started having children almost right away. I have three kids (6,4,and 2) and they've been raised in the church up to this point.
The beginning of my shelf loading was at a time when I was employed by the church cleaning the temple at night. I spoke to someone who expressed their frustration with church culture to me. This was the very first time in my entire life that I even considered agreeing with something negative about the church. It was obviously life-changing. It prepared me for a couple years later when I had become at least a little jaded and another friend exposed me to a lot of the information found in the CES letter. At the time I didn't believe anything that that person told me, but the foundation of my faith had be shaken, even cracked.

The rest of my story you're probably somewhat familiar with. I ended up reading the CES letter. I learned about the issues surrounding the BoA. My worldview came tumbling down around me.

I stopped going to church about a year ago. I am very blessed; my wife stopped going with me. At first it was just because she didn't want to do sacrament meeting with three young children alone and she didn't want them asking her "Why doesn't Daddy come to church?". But I think since then I've helped her see TSCC for what it really is. So I count myself very lucky.

I have felt confused and frustrated. Now that my entire identity is based on a lie, who the hell am I and why should I bother with anything? I have been having a tough time finding motivation when the "eternal scheme" is no longer relevant. Any advice here would be fantastic. I am currently reading Standing for Something More and loving it.

Anyway, thanks for reading! Really excited to engage in this community.
God is either all powerful or all good.
I have yet to hear an explanation on how he can be both.
- Lex Luthor

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Ghost
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Ghost » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:10 am

Welcome to the site.
notforprophet wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:05 pm
who the hell am I and why should I bother with anything?
It is strange to go from assuming that things happen for a reason, your actions have a cosmic purpose, there is justice in the universe, you are an eternal being who has existed and will exist forever, and so on, to realizing that maybe we're just part of a fleeting, insignificant film on the surface of a planet, and eventually there will be no evidence that we ever existed. (See Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" quote.)

But even if nothing matters in a grand sense, things can matter to us. And the funny thing is that absolutely nothing about "reality" has changed as your beliefs have shifted. Whatever was "true" before is still "true" now. Only your perspective has changed. And there's nothing any of us can do about the fundamental nature of the universe, but hopefully we can enjoy our experience with it while we have a chance. (See the book of Ecclesiastes for details.)

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:24 am

I can relate with a lot of details in your story, especially the gradual exposure to information from a variety of sources leading to disaffection. I also relate closely with your feeling of lost identity. I have been pushed towards a heavy interest in non-church related geneaology and DNA testing to answer at least some of that question. A big feeling that I want to know who my people were before one of them joined mormonism. It has been a fascinating journey.

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slavereeno
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by slavereeno » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:26 am

notforprophet wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:05 pm
I stopped going to church about a year ago. I am very blessed; my wife stopped going with me.
You are blessed.

Welcome.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:13 am

Welcome!

We've all been through this to some extent or another and understand what you're feeling in this big beautiful new world view without a Mormon rudder. It can be confusing, suffocating, and scary all at the same time. It's rough and does a doozy on your brain.

When I first met Corsair he asked one difficult question that has wracked my brain for a few years now. He said, "what do YOU want to do?" What interests you the most? What do you want to do with your life?

To be honest, I didn't know the answer to this because I wasn't in charge if my own self. I was mormon which meant my path was well planned out from the time I was 18 months old to 19 years old.

So it's extremely difficult to wake up one day with a new world view that has options. Lots of options. Take it slow and go about building a new life with your wife together. Replace the church with things that interest you both. Become indifferent to Mormonism like your indifferent to Nicki Manaj!

Don't let leaving the church consume you. Consume yourself with better alternatives because guess what? There are thousands of them out there. There's even good moral people who don't even know what a Mormon is.

Once the shock wears off you'll find new motivation in your life as you pursue whatever you want to. Just remember, it's ok to keep your food storage going too!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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notforprophet
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by notforprophet » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am

slavereeno wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:26 am
notforprophet wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:05 pm
I stopped going to church about a year ago. I am very blessed; my wife stopped going with me.
You are blessed.

Welcome.
Yes slavereeno(love the name and avatar!), I read your introductory post and I want you to know that my heart is with you.
I have never felt so much empathy for people I've met online as I do for those I've met here and in www.reddit.com/r/exmormon that are struggling with TBM spouses having such a hard time with their transition.
If I still prayed I would definitely include you guys in those prayers!!
God is either all powerful or all good.
I have yet to hear an explanation on how he can be both.
- Lex Luthor

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Corsair
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Corsair » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:49 am

We are glad you found us here. Good luck going forward with a faith transition.

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Linked
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Linked » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:54 am

Welcome to NOM! Your story is unique, but so familiar.
I stopped going to church about a year ago. I am very blessed; my wife stopped going with me. At first it was just because she didn't want to do sacrament meeting with three young children alone and she didn't want them asking her "Why doesn't Daddy come to church?". But I think since then I've helped her see TSCC for what it really is. So I count myself very lucky.
You are very lucky to have your wife with you. It sounds like you may not be sure if your wife is really on board with you or not (or I could be misreading what you said). If she wants to be a believer but is following you because she doesn't feel she can stay religious alone that may lead to some resentment. May I suggest Dr. Kristy Money's Mixed Faith Marriage Workbook? Even with your wife on board this will help keep the communication lines open about how each of you feel about spiritual things.
I have felt confused and frustrated. Now that my entire identity is based on a lie, who the hell am I and why should I bother with anything? I have been having a tough time finding motivation when the "eternal scheme" is no longer relevant. Any advice here would be fantastic. I am currently reading Standing for Something More and loving it.
I totally understand. I avoided thinking about it and just got into some hobbies and communities. When I told my brother about my disaffection he looked at me funny, wondering why I was still married and not off doing hookers and blow. But there is so much to life and much of what I have been doing I still like and consider good. I really got into real history and where humanity came from and what makes us human. Books like Sapiens, Guns Germs and Steel, Thinking Fast and Slow. I took a free online course on Human Origins. The new Cosmos show was a religious experience for me. I also got more into the Utah Jazz, and started going to Comic Con, and bought a camping trailer. Still no hookers or blow.

I am at a similar place in life with you, I have a 6 year old and a 3 year old. My wife is still quite TBM though, and I go to church with her to support her. We teach the Sunbeams together, otherwise I would probably leave after Sacrament.

Have you told any parents/siblings/in-laws? How has that gone? Do your kids miss primary at all (I am wondering if my kids would)?

ETA What are your beliefs now? We cover a wide range here.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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notforprophet
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by notforprophet » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:54 am

You are very lucky to have your wife with you. It sounds like you may not be sure if your wife is really on board with you or not (or I could be misreading what you said). If she wants to be a believer but is following you because she doesn't feel she can stay religious alone that may lead to some resentment. May I suggest Dr. Kristy Money's Mixed Faith Marriage Workbook? Even with your wife on board this will help keep the communication lines open about how each of you feel about spiritual things.
I do appreciate the advice. This was her at first, but everytime I share something else about TSCC with her (eg. City Creek Shopping Center, November 2015 Policy, BoA issues) she becomes more and more disgusted with the church. Last night we had a conversation where she said "Okay, so you've convinced me that the church isn't true, but I want to find that out on my own." which is obviously great. So I recommended she read the Gospel Topics and the CES Letter. She's now trying to figure out what she does believe.
Have you told any parents/siblings/in-laws? How has that gone? Do your kids miss primary at all (I am wondering if my kids would)?

ETA What are your beliefs now? We cover a wide range here.
Family and how it's gone:
I have quite a few relatives in "my" ward, so the news of my inactivity was bound to quickly reach the ears of my entire family, and it did. Obviously my family is completely devastated that we've stopped going. At first my father responded really well and was interested in learning what I had learned (at the time evolution was something we discussed) in order to better understand my current predicament. Now he is taking a more forward stance and arguing with me on topics that come up. It's not too bad. My mom cannot handle it. She cries and loses sleep. I feel terrible for causing her this turmoil, but I remember that it's the church that has done it and I've done nothing wrong by finding and following the truth. My BIL (sister's husband, younger than me) tried to commit me to read and pray (fairly recent RM) and told me that if I couldn't believe then to at least "suck it up and go for your kids". I took a deep breath and decided not to escalate (or continue) that conversation. My wife and I are the last of her parents' children to leave the church, so at this point they have no energy left to fight us on it.

Kids and Primary:
At first one of my relatives continued to take my children to church. They wanted to go and we didn't mind having a 3-hour break each week. Each week we asked the two oldest whether or not they'd like to go. At first they said "yes" every week. Over the last year they've said "yes" less and less often. They're starting to say "no" pretty consistently. They did participate in the primary presentation and loved it. Overall their transition has been pretty smooth.

I hope that answers your questions and I wish you all the best with your family!
God is either all powerful or all good.
I have yet to hear an explanation on how he can be both.
- Lex Luthor

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:52 pm

notforprophet wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm
My mom cannot handle it. She cries and loses sleep. I feel terrible for causing her this turmoil, but I remember that it's the church that has done it and I've done nothing wrong by finding and following the truth.
Stories like these just tear me up inside. Eyring says at a press conference -- my sons are all bishops; why? because of their mother! But the inverse of that is that if your kid doesn't stay with the church, when you get to heaven there will be empty chairs and it's YOUR fault, Mom. You had one job and you blew it.

It is the church's fault, not yours, but I hope you will be gentle with her.

ETA: Glad you are here. :)
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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Linked
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Linked » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:21 pm

notforprophet wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm
Family and how it's gone:
I have quite a few relatives in "my" ward, so the news of my inactivity was bound to quickly reach the ears of my entire family, and it did. Obviously my family is completely devastated that we've stopped going. At first my father responded really well and was interested in learning what I had learned (at the time evolution was something we discussed) in order to better understand my current predicament. Now he is taking a more forward stance and arguing with me on topics that come up. It's not too bad. My mom cannot handle it. She cries and loses sleep. I feel terrible for causing her this turmoil, but I remember that it's the church that has done it and I've done nothing wrong by finding and following the truth. My BIL (sister's husband, younger than me) tried to commit me to read and pray (fairly recent RM) and told me that if I couldn't believe then to at least "suck it up and go for your kids". I took a deep breath and decided not to escalate (or continue) that conversation. My wife and I are the last of her parents' children to leave the church, so at this point they have no energy left to fight us on it.

Kids and Primary:
At first one of my relatives continued to take my children to church. They wanted to go and we didn't mind having a 3-hour break each week. Each week we asked the two oldest whether or not they'd like to go. At first they said "yes" every week. Over the last year they've said "yes" less and less often. They're starting to say "no" pretty consistently. They did participate in the primary presentation and loved it. Overall their transition has been pretty smooth.

I hope that answers your questions and I wish you all the best with your family!
Thank you for sharing! That is a tough situation with your mom. You are right, it is not your fault. And it's not her fault. That is pretty funny about your BIL, it would take a lot of effort not to just start laughing when getting the commitment pattern used, and even more effort not to set him straight about the "suck it up and go for your kids" comment.

I love how you let the kids make their own decision with church attendance, it seems so obvious now but that is perfect. They weren't forced or manipulated either way by you. Hopefully me and DW can get to a point where my kids can have that choice.

Again, welcome to NOM!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Mormorrisey » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:51 pm

Welcome to the best ward on the internet!

The Lamborn story is rather interesting; his research was done in the era before the interwebs, and before the essays came out, and you wonder whether or not people on his council of love have had second thoughts, now that Lamborn's story has been confirmed by the church itself. It is a good read.

Most of us here will try to conceal our envy for a spouse that is willing to investigate the truth claims of the church, but you are not incorrect about the challenge of existential dread. It's a real one, but it can be overcome with some time, and looking at different philosophies and/or throwing yourself into causes, hobbies ore existing relationships. The latter is what I have done, and now that I see my family not as the embodiment of the Mormon ideal, but as people I not only love but like a great deal, it has been a revelation on how I should have treated them all along.

Good luck on your journey!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Raylan Givens
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Re: Hello and Who am I?

Post by Raylan Givens » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:51 pm

We have lots of lies fed to us. Most of then small, or to protect us. This one happens to be big. I think figuring out what goals you have with your DW is the next step. They probably haven't changed much, but it would be worth evaluating.

Keep focused on having a Growth Mindset and you will push through. All the best, just live your life the way you want to (it's not like you are a horrible person now, you are still you.)
"Ah, you know, I think you use the Bible to do whatever the hell you like" - Raylan Givens

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