New to NOM and love this board!

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ap1054
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:00 pm

New to NOM and love this board!

Post by ap1054 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 am

Hello everyone!

I hope I didn't break any rules by posting in the doctrinal discussions before introducing myself. As a guest user I saw the post on "brushes with the other side" and felt like I should share my "brush" experience as it is something that has helped me maintain a strong faith in God and not question my relationship with God after having discovered the craziness of Mormon history over the past year and a half and feeling betrayed and lied to by the church.

A little bit about me: born and raised in the church, served a state-side mission, married in the temple, both sides of family active Orthodox Mormons and my parents are really struggling with my faith transition (been a messy and heated experience, unfortunately). However, my wife has been completely supportive through all this and she's open to critically considering the church and the leadership. Currently working through a PhD at a midwest school.

Love the discussions on this forum! And I really appreciate the congeniality and respectfulness I see users extending to each other. Will try to be a constructively contributing member. So glad to have found this site and vent some of my frustrations and pose questions that I don't feel comfortable bringing up with others.

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Red Ryder
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Re: New to NOM and love this board!

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:57 am

Welcome to NOMTopia!

Since you broke the mandatory "introduction before posting" rule you have to answer a few questions.

1. What triggered you to question your faith?

2. How did you find NOM?

3. Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Corsair
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Location: Phoenix

Re: New to NOM and love this board!

Post by Corsair » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:27 am

We are glad you found us. Do you still participate in your ward?

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slavereeno
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: New to NOM and love this board!

Post by slavereeno » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:15 am

Welcome! I love to hear more about discussions with your orthodox parents.

ap1054
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:00 pm

Re: New to NOM and love this board!

Post by ap1054 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:13 pm

1. What triggered you to question your faith?

I would like to think that I've always been a progressive thinker even back in my TBM days. For example, I never bought the story that the priesthood ban was from God (rather an institutional sin due to past leaders' decisions), and I've always been skeptical of claims to priesthood authority and the one-true church claim - I've always been uneasy about priesthood blessings. Universalism has always resonated with me and I do appreciate the angle the Givens are pushing these days.

Anyways, I began my PhD nearly two years ago at a Midwest university, after my wife and I lived in the Provo/Orem area for approx. 8 years. One of my office-mates is a committed evangelical and had a lot of hard questions about Mormonism, so I met him head on and spent time online looking for things from FAIR and BYU-related material to combat his questioning. Long story short, I came across stuff that I'd never seen before, since I really never had looked at nor considered "anti" material since 2006ish (mission years). It was all fascinating to me and I came across MormonThink, MormonStories, and MormonDiscussionPodcast and a whole new world of thought opened up to me. It was consuming and I had a hard time focusing on my classes and Phd-research because I just wanted to dig into all this stuff.

What threw me into a "faith crisis" was all the stuff online about the nuanced priesthood restoration and evidence of revisionist history. For some reason, this rocked me as I read about early church members struggling with the notion of priesthood being sprung on them and even high ranking apostles (David Whitmer?) being skeptical of Joseph. From that point on, all the stuff just kept coming together and in combination, there are so many issues with church history and leadership coverups that it's hard to trust anything anymore. Sure it's easy for FAIR or any fairly informed Mormon to explain away some issue in isolation. But when you back up and look at all this stuff as a mosaic, it really becomes pretty damning.

2. How did you find NOM?

I've explored MormonThink (awesome website) pretty thoroughly and found a "what to do now?" page which directed me to NOM. I like the term "new-order Mormon" because I really consider myself a highly progressive Mormon now, and in RFM style, a true believing Mormon, although I'm deeply skeptical of a lot of Joseph's works, and I have doubts about the BofM (so maybe I'm not a Mormon...). However, I've had a few very powerful spiritual experiences in my life, including a quasi-NDE, and even though I've briefly considered agnosticism, etc. it is hard for me to push these experiences away. Further, I feel a deep connection with God when I pray sincerely and try to maintain a 1-on-1 relationship. I really feel like my prayers get answered and I find myself being less judgmental of others, more patient, thoughtful of my wife and kids, etc. Who wouldn't want that? I'm terrible at keeping up on this stuff and giving God 1-on-1 time, but when I do, I see "IMMEDIATE" fruits in my life, although I believe all of these things can be accessed outside of Mormonism.

3. Where do you see yourself in 5 years?

That's a great question, and a question my wife more-or-less keeps asking me. She keeps saying "you're in a place that isn't sustainable!" But she's patient, she knows I'm committed to her and our kids, and she knows I'm still the same person even though I seriously doubt Mormonism.

As of now, I plan to stay in Mormonism albeit passively. But the moment the environment is not good for our kids or the leadership does something that tips me over the edge, it's more likely than not that my wife and I will walk away. She is very simple in her faith and is willing to do whatever is best for our family, even if that means we need to spend time outside of the church. She's freaking awesome, and she and my kids are my whole world.

4. Do I still participate in my ward?

I'm really busy with the Phd so I've told my Bishop I'm not willing to take on heavy callings right now, and he's an awesome guy and totally willing to accommodate the needs of our family. Right now I'm the organist and I play the piano for the primary (can be boring but the kids can be pretty entertaining). But I do find myself cringing at so many things that are said in sacrament meeting and even in the simple lessons given to the kids in primary. It's a good question how long I'll stick around.

The challenge I have with leaving Mormonism is that (IMO) for the most part, the church is full of well-intentioned people who are uninformed about the problems. Also it's such a big part of my life since I was raised in it and committed to it for so long that at this point in my journey it's hard to see myself closing the door on it. I do believe the 1stP and Q12 have hard lives and they're doing their best (although they are seriously biased by their privilege, culture, and isolation from non-Mormon influence), and sometimes I seriously wonder how much they know about the history (that is in no way an excuse though - of all people they should be 100% informed). I often feel sorry for them with the problems they've inherited due to decisions of leadership past. Also, their callings require them to pretty much give up on all hope of a peaceful retirement enjoying family and grandkids. My wife was friends with one of Elder Ballard's granddaughters back in Provo/Orem and although this friend loved her grandpa, she would easily speak up and say how little she sees him because he's so freaking busy. I mean he knows her name and all and went to her wedding, but beyond that, she told us she doesn't see him much. No way I would sign up for that...

5. Reaction of orthodox parents

I love my parent so I don't want to throw them under the bus on this forum. But they had a ridiculous response to my problems. When I told them about all I've looked into and that I was struggling with my faith, they got pissed off at me! "Why are you looking at all that ap1054?!! Are you spending equal time in the scriptures?!! So you're willing to just throw your covenants away, just like that?!!"

Please... I've never faltered in my personal relationship with God and I feel no displeasure from him for my current opinions and positions. But to put the icing on the cake, my dad insinuated that he knows so many people who did what I'm doing now and they ended up cheating on their spouses and losing their family, and everything that they hold dear. "Are you willing to risk that ap1054?" Dude!!! That is messed up, do not put me into that stupid stereotypical "sin-box" that Mormons love to throw doubters and Ex-Mo's into. So right now things are a bit awkward with them because the last serious conversation did not go well. It really is sad that a faith struggle and faith transition can split families apart. Really shouldn't be that way.

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MoPag
Posts: 3741
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: New to NOM and love this board!

Post by MoPag » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Welcome to the ward family!
ap1054 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:13 pm
But to put the icing on the cake, my dad insinuated that he knows so many people who did what I'm doing now and they ended up cheating on their spouses and losing their family, and everything that they hold dear. "Are you willing to risk that ap1054?"
Damnnnnnnnnnn! That is so messed up! I bet he'd be surprised to learn that there are plenty of TBMs who cheat on their spouses.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Hagoth
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Re: New to NOM and love this board!

Post by Hagoth » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:35 am

ap1054 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:13 pm
But to put the icing on the cake, my dad insinuated that he knows so many people who did what I'm doing now and they ended up cheating on their spouses and losing their family, and everything that they hold dear. "Are you willing to risk that ap1054?"
Oh man, I hate that kind of stereotyping. Sure it happens, but it happens to active members too. Otherwise there would be no need for disciplinary councils. I know people who have stayed in the church and turned into bigoted hypocrites too, but that doesn't mean it happens to everyone.

Glad you found us ap1054!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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