Seriously long-time lurker...

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AdmiralHoldo
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Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:14 am

I've been lurking since back in the days of the old board! I finally decided it was time to start posting in time for a General Conference where nothing will be said about sexual or marital abuse, but plenty will be said about p0rn0graphy and Teh Gays. #fighttherealenemy

I'm going by AdmiralHoldo here - doesn't really mean anything beyond the fact that I love Star Wars and wish I had purple hair. I do post under my real name elsewhere on the Bloggernacle, and I've spent several years on StayLDS - unfortunately the heavy-handed moderation at the latter has rendered it pretty much useless as a resource for someone who is actually struggling to StayLDS. I describe myself as a heterodox/progressive Mormon, but I find that I increasingly Just. Don't. Care. about whatever stupid or downright evil thing the uninspired "prophets" of our church are going to try and blame on God.

I've lived my entire life outside the Jello Belt, do NOT come from pioneer stock, and have been married for nearly two decades to a box-checking TBM from Idaho. He is emotionally and spiritually abusive (he doesn't hit me, thank God) and when we first started dating, I thought I was so lucky that someone so outwardly righteous would 'choose' the likes of ME. I now see (thanks to books like The Gift Of Fear and Why Does He Do That) that that was exactly his plan - create a false sense of indebtedness in me due to the fact that he graduated seminary and has ancestors that crossed the plains, etc. I do have to use incognito browser windows on my phone so he won't know that I'm going on what he calls 'those anti-Mormon websites where bitter people go to vent about how much they hate the church' - places like BCC, W&T, FMH, or The Exponent, all of which are run by active participating Mormons. Basically, he uses the Church as a stick to hit me with, and then wonders why I have bad feelings towards A) him and B) the stick. I'm currently taking a professional licensing program in order to get back into the workforce - I have a STEM degree from a d@mn good school but stayed home with the kids like a good Mormon woman. Once I get done with that, I'm giving myself 5 years to save up for a divorce (we are pretty much destitute; turns out the prosperity gospel is a load of hogwash). We also have 3 kids in their teens/preteens and I can pretty much guarantee at least 2 of them are going to part ways with the Church over social issues. I'm proud that my kids don't hate gay people as much as Oaks would like them to but of course in my husband's eyes, it's going to be my fault when they leave.

I'll post as much as I can during General Conference, I promise I'll try to be funny :lol:

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:24 am

Welcome! Always great to have new voices joining the choir.

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Jeffret
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by Jeffret » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:27 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:14 am
(we are pretty much destitute; turns out the prosperity gospel is a load of hogwash).
It works pretty well if you preach it, if you can manage to be one of those people preaching the prosperity gospel and getting other people to funnel money your way. Even in the Mormon church it can be a pretty good gig if you get into the right positions, though usually you have to manage to be a pretty wealthy person beforehand, sometimes in spite of the drains the Church places on your resources. If you're trying to follow the prosperity gospel, it doesn't work so well. But, nobody pays attention to all those lack-of-success stories. They figure they'll be one of the successful ones if they just do the right things.


Welcome to the contributing side of the forum. Stick your toes in, the water's fine. Best of luck on getting your situation put together and laying a foundation for future improvements, without adhering to what everyone tells you that you have to do. Keep chipping away at and you'll put together what you need.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

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AdmiralHoldo
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:24 am

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys!

DH is taking one of the kids to swim practice so I have a little more time to write about my faith transition. My shelf lost structural integrity in 2008 in the Celestial Room of the Louisville, KY temple. We were struggling financially; DH was a victim of the financial collapse and had to take a 60% pay cut after 4 months out of work. I was working 10 hour days away from my children - the youngest was a baby and I had to pump breast milk with one hand while driving to work because we couldn't even afford formula and we were constantly praying, fasting, and paying tithing on our meager earnings in order to get God to give us the promised blessings so massive we wouldn't even have room for them all. We spent one of our precious days off and left our kids with their babysitter (who was seriously terrible but that's all we could afford) to go and do an endowment session in the temple, hoping to get through to God. I sat in the Celestial Room after the fake Masonic rituals were over with and I remember thinking, I'm not going to ask God to give DH a better job, I'm just going to ask God if He loves me. I had 100% faith that the answer would be yes, I just wanted to feel it.

The answer was no.

The answer wasn't [no answer] or 'God doesn't exist' or 'God loves you but He is putting you through trials for His own purposes,' the answer was NO. I was stunned. It was years before I told DH about this and of course, he didn't believe me. He did eventually [claim to] ask God if He loves me and apparently the answer was yes, and since he holds the priesthood, his answer trumps mine.

My shelf was ripped out of the wall, with no possibility of repair, in 2013 when we attended the temple again for the first time in years. (TBM as my husband is, he finds it incredibly boring.) I was willing to go through it without complaint but when I pulled that stupid veil over my face, something inside of me broke. I don't know if it was the Holy Ghost or Heavenly Mother or Satan or somebody else altogether, but I felt deeply within myself that this is wrong. And it was like a veil had been lifted (heh) and I saw all the many, many ways that the temple teaches that women are lesser than men, and that if this BS comes from God, it's not a God I am going to worship. Since then I have embraced the twin concepts of dytheism (the idea that God is not necessarily good) and misotheism (the idea that you believe in God but don''t particularly like him) to explain my current level of belief. I'm not an atheist or even an agnostic - I know that God exists, and I know that he is an abusive jerk. One of the most abusive things He does is demand that we lie and say how good and nice and wonderful He is, and I will not be a party to that.

Finally, as part of my faith transition I rejected the idea that we are not supposed to speak to or about Heavenly Mother. This to me just shows what an abusive husband HF is - a husband who insists on receiving 100% of his children's love and admiration, giving 0% to his wife, IS A BAD MAN. And without going into a lot of specifics, the first time that I prayed to Heavenly Mother, She answered me within minutes.

Since then I've compiled a list of questions I would ask President Nelson if I somehow got through the layers and layers and layers of bureaucracy designed to insulate him from the general membership of the church. It's really crazy to look at my list of questions and realize that no one, not even God's chosen mouthpiece, can answer them.

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DPRoberts
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by DPRoberts » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:18 pm

Welcome, Admiral. I look forward to reading your future posts, and enjoyed your posts today. Looking forward to reading your questions for RMN when you can share them.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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Red Ryder
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by Red Ryder » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:27 am

Welcome!

Let's test your true level of lurkerness.

Here's a little quiz:

What color was Koriwhore's hair when he was the most mad?

What was Cwald's favorite beer?

Which band was Stealth's favorite and helped him find his personal Jesus?

If you can answer these 3 questions correctly without help from the officiator we will let you pass through the veil and into the celestial NOM room!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:26 am

Admiral,
I'm so glad you decided to finally join the party. Your introduction was fascinating and I really hope Heavenly Mother will fill the gaps that the other guy doesn't seem to care about.
AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:24 am
The answer was no.
I can relate to this. All of my answers about the church have been NO. But I still gave it the benefit of the doubt for decades. Why do we do things like that to ourselves?

It sounds like you are a very logical person who can formulate and carry out a long term plan. Good luck with everything!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Corsair
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by Corsair » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:34 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:14 am
I've been lurking since back in the days of the old board! I finally decided it was time to start posting in time for a General Conference where nothing will be said about sexual or marital abuse, but plenty will be said about p0rn0graphy and Teh Gays. #fighttherealenemy
That's a fascinating journey you have. Good luck with the STEM background. I have a few friends who transitioned into a STEM field after 20 years in other careers and they have done well.

We didn't get direct condemnation of Pr0n or Teh Gays, but we do have a new way engage in immoral behavior from Elder Cook: Nonconsensual Immorality. Old school consensual immorality was bad enought but now nonconsensual behavior is a new way to confuse sexual abuse victims everywhere.

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GoodBoy
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:32 pm

Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by GoodBoy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:05 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:27 am
Welcome!

Let's test your true level of lurkerness.

Here's a little quiz:

What color was Koriwhore's hair when he was the most mad?

What was Cwald's favorite beer?

Which band was Stealth's favorite and helped him find his personal Jesus?

If you can answer these 3 questions correctly without help from the officiator we will let you pass through the veil and into the celestial NOM room!
Wow I miss these guys.
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

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MoPag
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by MoPag » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:56 am

I'm so glad you are here!!! I loved all your comments on the NOMfrence threads! You are awesome!!!

I love what you said about Heavenly Mother. She is a wonderful diety to pray to, in my opinion as well.

Sorry things aren't great with your husband. Lots of people on this board can probably relate. We are here for you!

Welcome out of lurk-dom! Your voice is needed here!
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: Seriously long-time lurker...

Post by hiding in plain sight » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:19 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:24 am
I don't know if it was the Holy Ghost or Heavenly Mother or Satan or somebody else altogether, but I felt deeply within myself that this is wrong. And it was like a veil had been lifted (heh) and I saw all the many, many ways that the temple teaches that women are lesser than men, and that if this BS comes from God, it's not a God I am going to worship.
You have definitely been on a long journey. Thank you so much for being willing to share parts of your story.

As a father of daughters, I have begun to hate what is taught in the temple as well and like you described your epiphany.

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