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Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 11:19 pm
by Somegirl
græy wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 8:23 am
I'm a bit late here, but I wanted to welcome you to the group Somegirl.
You're right about needing support for this type of life-event. Everything else I've been through I could count on friends, my wife, my family. But in this, all bets are off. It affects everyone so differently. I had some people basically shrug it off and proceed as normal. Others treat it like the end of the world.
Either way, you're among friends here.
Thanks greay. Isn’t it so strange how this faith transition affects other people in our lives so much? Maybe other life events do too, but I just can’t think of anything comparable. But, my brain has been so focused on my little family and all of this church stuff lately, that I’m also sure I’m overlooking a lot of big life events that would be similar...
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 11:26 pm
by Somegirl
whatififly wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 pm
Welcome! My story is very similar to yours. I also felt emotional and unhappy after attending church, then later found disgusting and disturbing information about the church that I once was so unbendingly loyal to. I'm glad you're here, I hope that it can give you a place to vent and talk about your emotions as you go through this transition. It's a difficult place to be in but letting go of the chains put on by the church is truly amazing. Good luck in your journey!
It’s nice to find somebody who has a similar story! I could never figure out how my sister was so happy at church while I had the same classes and YW leaders and hated it. I figured that I just didn’t fit in and would someday find happiness in the religion in the after life. I’m pretty sure I even wrote a journal entry about how I don’t go to church for anyone else except myself because everyone there made it feel like a lot of work. Looking back I do not remember very many positive experiences. I’m very glad that I also didn’t have any hugely negative experiences, though. I feel quite lucky that I’m not one who was ever abused or asked inappropriate questions in one on one interviews!
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:24 am
by slavereeno
Somegirl wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 10:56 pm
I’m not sure... but how long have you been going through your transition? How close does your family live in proximity to you? I talk to my mom on the phone a few times per week, and we probably see each other once every couple of months. She will ask me about church sometimes, or just tell me all about her calling and how wonderful it is.
My parents are close, as are my wife's parents. We are in many ways the go-to children in our families as well, I see my parents all the time. Dad has been BP and HC and used to do a lot of reading about the church, but less so recently. Mom is a bury her head in the sand kind of person. I started bringing up issues about the church about 10 years ago, specifically the similarities between masonry and the endowment and JS magical thinking etc. and my Dad immediately accused me of having some sin and told me to repent. From my mother, I received a very angry and loud version of JS is just shy of Jesus testimony.
That sent me scurrying back into my shell for another decade, I harbored some serious cog-dis though and whilst trying to play the part (even to myself) of the perfect Mormon I told myself I was a "different" kind of Mormon, progressive or Neo-Orthodox or whatever, but I got smoked out while doing a tour as SEC.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:12 am
by Corsair
Somegirl wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 11:15 pm
I have read some of your posts and comments, and I think it’s great how you can make everything work for you. I sincerely wish I could figure that out, and sooner, rather than later.
I want to validate what you are saying. However, I rather think I'm some kind of outlier. This simply doesn't work for most people. I have tried explaining my point of view to other unbelievers and it does not seem to work for most people. I'm not trying to
encourage people to leave the LDS church, but I'm not so sure that my path is sustainable either.
Honestly, I'm in the perfect demographic for enjoying the benefits of being a Mormon: white American, educated, married to a believing woman, four children, enjoys scouting. My arrogance lets me say that I would probably make an
excellent bishop. This makes it fairly easy to remain connected and enjoy a church that is guided by men who conveniently look just like me. Other than being intellectually annoyed for a couple of hours on Sunday, It's not hurting me.
While I feel comfortable in my ward, I don't feel validated or enriched. No one really wants to hear from me unless my comments encourage people to "follow the prophet". I try to bring things back to Jesus, but it's increasingly difficult. In the past year I have read a lot on the history of Christianity and the historical Jesus and this is going to make Gospel Doctrine class increasingly uncomfortable.
And, as you may have also noticed, if my wife were to join me in my unbelief I would likely make a quick, graceful exit. In fact, I often fear that I have set myself up as an example of middle-way Mormonism that is simply not going to work for most people. If the church doesn't work for you, don't stick around just because it worked for me. There are communities out othere with both believers and unbelievers that would welcome you and your contributions. There are good communities that not only want your involvement, they would be
improved by your involvement.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:49 am
by IT_Veteran
Corsair wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:12 am
While I feel comfortable in my ward, I don't feel validated or enriched. No one really wants to hear from me unless my comments encourage people to "follow the prophet". I try to bring things back to Jesus, but it's increasingly difficult. In the past year I have read a lot on the history of Christianity and the historical Jesus and this is going to make Gospel Doctrine class increasingly uncomfortable.
I've wondered about this aspect of the church. I know it's hypothetical so hard to say for sure, but do you think if you were to move (either across town to a different ward or out of state completely), do you think you would make the effort to fit into a new ward, or make a clean break at that point?
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 am
by Corsair
IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:49 am
I've wondered about this aspect of the church. I know it's hypothetical so hard to say for sure, but do you think if you were to move (either across town to a different ward or out of state completely), do you think you would make the effort to fit into a new ward, or make a clean break at that point?
This is an extremely relevant question that I have not answered for myself yet. My wife is itching to move and I suspect we are much closer to the end than the beginning in our current house. She has not wanted to discuss my apostasy with me other than throwing occasional articles at me then hoping I suddenly regain belief without any conversation with her about issues. But, she really does need to understand that I am likely to reduce my activity if we change wards. I won't turn into some loudmouth apostate, but the list of callings I will accept grows
much shorter.
My tentative plan is to quietly meet with my new bishop and explain that I will happily participate, but I'm not on the list for leadership or advancement. Don't call me as Ward Mission Leader or EQ counselor. I
really don't want to teach Primary again, but I would serve on the Scout Committee for the next year and a half until the Mormons cast it aside for something else. I honestly do see some value in local ward participation, but I also know that the only
approved participation will be as someone who keeps his mouth shut if there are any doubts.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:37 am
by IT_Veteran
Corsair wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 am
IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:49 am
I've wondered about this aspect of the church. I know it's hypothetical so hard to say for sure, but do you think if you were to move (either across town to a different ward or out of state completely), do you think you would make the effort to fit into a new ward, or make a clean break at that point?
This is an extremely relevant question that I have not answered for myself yet. My wife is itching to move and I suspect we are much closer to the end than the beginning in our current house. She has not wanted to discuss my apostasy with me other than throwing occasional articles at me then hoping I suddenly regain belief without any conversation with her about issues. But, she really does need to understand that I am likely to reduce my activity if we change wards. I won't turn into some loudmouth apostate, but the list of callings I will accept grows
much shorter.
My tentative plan is to quietly meet with my new bishop and explain that I will happily participate, but I'm not on the list for leadership or advancement. Don't call me as Ward Mission Leader or EQ counselor. I
really don't want to teach Primary again, but I would serve on the Scout Committee for the next year and a half until the Mormons cast it aside for something else. I honestly do see some value in local ward participation, but I also know that the only
approved participation will be as someone who keeps his mouth shut if there are any doubts.
Thanks for responding. I was curious because Kalikala has talked about moving across the country and just making a fresh start. DD is 13yo and still TBM, so I don't think DW would leave it entirely behind, but would likely take a similar approach to what you've described.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:38 pm
by Kalikala
IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:37 am
Thanks for responding. I was curious because Kalikala has talked about moving across the country and just making a fresh start. DD is 13yo and still TBM, so I don't think DW would leave it entirely behind, but would likely take a similar approach to what you've described.
I mostly just want to run away. I’m definitely at the “flight” end of fight or flight. I’m thinking a quiet island somewhere. Not many people. No churches. Mountains and beaches to explore. Yep. That sounds amazing.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:06 pm
by slavereeno
Kalikala wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 1:38 pm
I mostly just want to run away. I’m definitely at the “flight” end of fight or flight. I’m thinking a quiet island somewhere. Not many people. No churches. Mountains and beaches to explore. Yep. That sounds amazing.
My wife has made nearly the same comment, that she would be ready to accept it all if she could just go to such a place.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:17 pm
by Kalikala
slavereeno wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 6:06 pm
Kalikala wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 1:38 pm
I mostly just want to run away. I’m definitely at the “flight” end of fight or flight. I’m thinking a quiet island somewhere. Not many people. No churches. Mountains and beaches to explore. Yep. That sounds amazing.
My wife has made nearly the same comment, that she would be ready to accept it all if she could just go to such a place.
Makes total sense. That way we don’t have to deal with the damage to relationships over something that should not cause damage. People believe different things, and that’s ok. Until it’s someone in your family.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:11 pm
by Somegirl
[/quote]
My parents are close, as are my wife's parents.
but I got smoked out while doing a tour as SEC.
[/quote]
Thank you for your response, and I’m so sorry to read about all of the stress you are going through right now. You’ve got it rough!
Because I can’t figure it out, what is SEC?
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:15 pm
by Somegirl
Corsair wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:12 am
Somegirl wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 11:15 pm
I have read some of your posts and comments, and I think it’s great how you can make everything work for you. I sincerely wish I could figure that out, and sooner, rather than later.
I want to validate what you are saying. However, I rather think I'm some kind of outlier. This simply doesn't work for most people. I have tried explaining my point of view to other unbelievers and it does not seem to work for most people. I'm not trying to
encourage people to leave the LDS church, but I'm not so sure that my path is sustainable either.
Honestly, I'm in the perfect demographic for enjoying the benefits of being a Mormon: white American, educated, married to a believing woman, four children, enjoys scouting. My arrogance lets me say that I would probably make an
excellent bishop. This makes it fairly easy to remain connected and enjoy a church that is guided by men who conveniently look just like me. Other than being intellectually annoyed for a couple of hours on Sunday, It's not hurting me.
While I feel comfortable in my ward, I don't feel validated or enriched. No one really wants to hear from me unless my comments encourage people to "follow the prophet". I try to bring things back to Jesus, but it's increasingly difficult. In the past year I have read a lot on the history of Christianity and the historical Jesus and this is going to make Gospel Doctrine class increasingly uncomfortable.
And, as you may have also noticed, if my wife were to join me in my unbelief I would likely make a quick, graceful exit. In fact, I often fear that I have set myself up as an example of middle-way Mormonism that is simply not going to work for most people. If the church doesn't work for you, don't stick around just because it worked for me. There are communities out othere with both believers and unbelievers that would welcome you and your contributions. There are good communities that not only want your involvement, they would be
improved by your involvement.
Thank you for your response. This makes sense to me. It is nice that you’ve found a comfort level - even if it doesn’t last forever. Thanks for your responses to the other questions/comments that IT and Kalikala (sp?) made as well. I sometimes wish we could move and make a fresh start as well.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:44 am
by slavereeno
Somegirl wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:11 pm
Because I can’t figure it out, what is SEC?
Sorry, too many acronyms, that stands for Stake Executive Secretary
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:04 pm
by Kishkumen
Welcome, I hope you find some support and encouragement here.
After reading your intro, my advice is to rip off the band-aid sooner than later. Tell your folks, it's gonna happen sooner or later, so get it done and move on with life. Of course, this is easier said than done. But I recommend not delaying unnecessarily.
Regarding potential fallout at work since most are LDS - most won't care. Of course, you might be mentioned here or there, but your 15 minutes of fame will likely be only 1 or 2 minutes. Try not to sweat it.
Best of luck to you in navigating this new world. It's crazy but can be fun.
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:03 pm
by Somegirl
slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 7:44 am
Somegirl wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:11 pm
Because I can’t figure it out, what is SEC?
Sorry, too many acronyms, that stands for Stake Executive Secretary
Thanks! There definitely are too many acronyms to keep straight!
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:17 pm
by Somegirl
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 1:04 pm
Welcome, I hope you find some support and encouragement here.
After reading your intro, my advice is to rip off the band-aid sooner than later. Tell your folks, it's gonna happen sooner or later, so get it done and move on with life. Of course, this is easier said than done. But I recommend not delaying unnecessarily.
Regarding potential fallout at work since most are LDS - most won't care. Of course, you might be mentioned here or there, but your 15 minutes of fame will likely be only 1 or 2 minutes. Try not to sweat it.
Best of luck to you in navigating this new world. It's crazy but can be fun.
Thanks for the advice, Kishkumen. I have been considering the rip the bandaid off approach, with my family at least. I think you may be right that it would be easier to get it done and over with.
It’s harder with my job... I work for a very small company, and they are all very TBM, with the exception of my direct supervisor - but she’s related to the owner. I also just had an experience with the owner that tells me to be cautious with sharing anything personal. I feel like I’m a valued employee, but I’m also reminded that I’m expendable. I guess maybe it isn’t too important with my job right now anyway, as I don’t post much on social media, and I’m not living much differently than I have been previously - with the exception of not wearing the garments. But, maybe they’ve never noticed one way or the other. I guess I may have talked about the church with consorkers in the past, but I’m thinking it’s all been very minimal. I also don’t socialize with them outside of work, so maybe it’s not a big deal.
This got longer than I had planned! I do appreciate your advice. Thank you!
Re: Hello, I’m new
Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:55 am
by slavereeno
Somegirl wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 9:03 pm
slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 7:44 am
Somegirl wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:11 pm
Because I can’t figure it out, what is SEC?
Sorry, too many acronyms, that stands for Stake Executive Secretary
Thanks! There definitely are too many acronyms to keep straight!
Come to think of it, that should be SES not SEC.
