GoodBoy reintroduction

[GoodBoy]

Hagoth suggested re-introductions, so here goes.

I'm the 3rd of 9 children from a large, supportive Mormon family. All the 6 boys got their Eagle in scouts and served missions. All 9 kids were married in the temple. I was seminary president. I went on a mission to Korea where I was extremely obedient. I was "master of my domain". I was president of the LDS students association at the local Junior College. I transferred to BYU where I was elders quorum president in my ward there. I got married in the temple to a girl from an apostolic family tree (she was also featured on the cover of the New Era!). I have been fully active and participating my whole life and I enjoyed it. I have 6 kids. The oldest two are currently students at BYU. The youngest is 7. I live in a very small community in Southeast Washington with one LDS ward in the town that I have been a very active member of for the last 10 years. This ward recently split into two wards. My wife and I's best friends include the current and former bishops of both wards, and our oldest daughter just married the current bishop's son last year. My next daughter is getting married to a freshman RM in the Provo temple next month. I have a temple recommend and I'm going.

5 years ago I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth. And my faith broke... all of it. I have remained active but I'm planning to be inactive after my daughter gets married next month. I don't mind going to church. I love the people there, I really do. I just don't agree with everything they talk about when they get together. I'm the 11 yr old scout leader. I was recently asked to teach elders quorum and I agreed if they would allow us to talk about hard issues in a faithful way. I was told to stick to the manual, so I turned the calling down. I still home teach as a way to try to help my neighbors, but of course I never talk about gospel topics. My wife is now also quite skeptical, but not as skeptical as I am. My son is a Junior in high school and his world still revolves around Mormonism. My younger three could probably take it or leave it. I am going inactive as a way to give them permission to leave it if it doesn't work for them. I don't think Mormonism is inherently evil, or at least more evil than most other religions out there so it's OK with me if my kids stay in if it works for them as long as they believe that the brethren make mistakes regularly even when they think God is talking through them, which they all have accepted, even my BYU kids. If the prophet says, "Grab your guns, we're marching on Washington DC!" my kids have agreed to stay home.

I've tried to start a Transitioning Mormons support group here in the Tri-Cities area of Washington, but have largely failed. There are ex-Mo groups here that I have participated with but the point of those seems to be similar to a college freshman's response to their first taste of freedom away from home and going a bit overboard. I'm willing to keep an open mind though and give it a few more chances. My objective however was to create a place that is family-friendly for those with doubts to come and vent if they needed to its just that people rarely show up to events. That's OK.

And just to give the stalkers enough information to find me if they wish, I'm an professor of engineering at Washington State University.

[SunbeltRed]

I'm kinda excited for these new introductions, I probably missed a lot of people's intro's on the other board.

Glad to hear you have found a peaceful way to co-exist with Mormonism and your family.

Do you feel like Mormonism has been a net+ in you older kids lives? Do you worry about what might happen to the younger ones? I have an internal debate about which direction to take, curious to hear from others who are at similar crossroads.

[SeeNoEvil]

GB thanks for your intro. I have enjoyed your posts from the old NOM and look forward to hearing more from you here as well. Several years ago I traveled through Southeastern Washington on a road trip with my family. Beautiful area! Please return and let us know how your upcoming "inactivity" works out!

[GoodBoy]

Do you feel like Mormonism has been a net+ in you older kids lives? Do you worry about what might happen to the younger ones? I have an internal debate about which direction to take, curious to hear from others who are at similar crossroads.

Its difficult to know because there is no control to compare against in this type of a life experiment. I am grateful for the self-control, discipline and unselfish attitudes that I think that my kids learned at least partially from the church.

I'm not unhappy that my girls are married to guys who believe in fully investing in the marriage if they want to have sex. Being a guy I realize that "why buy the cow if you get the milk for free" can be a real way of thinking. I'm glad they take finding "the one" very seriously and thoughtfully without the emotions that sex brings into a relationship.

I don't like how it created a rift in our family since they are continually taught that I am less valiant, stupid, or just not seeing things correctly. They worry aboit the status of their eternal family. But so far they respect me, and I respect them. My kids don't accept that Gays are sinful and icky, or that women are less than men, and are aware that prophets have screwed up in fairly major ways. I'm not excited about the financial and huge time burden the church will be in their lives, but I have tried to teach them to pay tithing on increase, and that it's OK to say no to callings. I've also taken them to other churches in an effort to open their minds and I think it has worked. They've also served overseas in orphanages in liu of missionary work and that opened their minds significantly.

If the worst I have to worry about my kids is that they're stressed out about not doing their home teaching 100%, or that they have to make two meals instead of one to give to the sick neighbor, I guess I'm OK with that.

I do worry a bit about the younger ones. I realize that if we leave the church it is me that is going to have to step up and teach by example of how to be unselfish and disciplined, how to have self control, and how to love and serve. I need to teach them to set goals and be responsible to themselves for accomplishing those goals, and to actively search for beauty and "spiritual" experiences wherever they can find them.

[Fifi de la Vergne]

I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and insight. My oldest DS is on a mission right now -- he left about a year after my faith transition and my greatest desire is that no matter where each member of the family ends up on the faith/belief/church involvement spectrum, we respect and love and value each other. I've tried to foster that by being 100% supportive of him on his mission while also being quietly explicit that I no longer believe myself. It's a tough balancing act -- from the sounds of it you have done well with your family so far.

[Deepthinker]

... I'm an professor of engineering at Washington State University.

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I'm an engineer too.

Thanks for posting this GoodBoy, I don't think I ever read your intro before.

Glad you could make it to NOM 2.0!

[GoodBoy]

I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and insight. My oldest DS is on a mission right now -- he left about a year after my faith transition and my greatest desire is that no matter where each member of the family ends up on the faith/belief/church involvement spectrum, we respect and love and value each other. I've tried to foster that by being 100% supportive of him on his mission while also being quietly explicit that I no longer believe myself. It's a tough balancing act -- from the sounds of it you have done well with your family so far.

How can you do anything else, but be supportive of your missionary son? Just know that you are getting prayed for quite a bit! That means that he is thinking about you a lot and loving on you.

One thing I have told my children in an attempt to make them less judgy of me is that I take finding truth, and finding God and his will for me very, very seriously. I do. I am not lazy about it. I didn't abandon my faith in Mormonism because I wanted to drink beer. I am ready and willing to do whatever God wants me to do, but I don't know what that is. And I'm kind of mad at God (if he/she exists) for not making it clear. A part of real truth seeking is to be willing to be wrong, and I have to be willing to put your beliefs to the test, to step back and do a true comparison of our beliefs as if I was looking at it from the outside. You have to do a side-by-side, unbiased comparison with other religions and look for significant differences. To do an unbiased comparison you have to look deep and sincerely into other faiths. The fact that most people don't want to sincerely investigate other faiths (read the quoran, attend mosque, love and serve their Muslim brothers) proves that you have confirmation bias. You believe what you WANT to believe, what works best for your social life. The fact that 99.9% of Gods children on the earth are NOT active Mormons is also something to consider. Is God that ineffective at getting his one truth out there, is he unable to make it clear, or doesn't he care? My bet is on the last one... if there is a God.

However, damaging your sons beliefs while he is on his mission is probably a selfish, and not a loving thing to do since it would probably make his life way worse, not better. I think it is best for my BYU-student children to retain their faith while they are there since losing their faith would get kicked out of BYU and ruin their social lives. They will probably be Mormon the rest of their lives, and I'm OK with that.

My goal now is to give my younger children opportunities and permission to come to different conclusions. So I am personally going inactive so that they aren't socially forced into one set of beliefs. I'm taking them to other churches to broaden their minds (although I'm personally convinced that everyone else is guessing just as much as Mormon leaders are), and talking to them about how to find truth.

Sorry to go long... can you tell I think about this a lot?

[GoodBoy]

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I'm an engineer too.

Shirt pockets! You gotta protect em! You gotta.

And if you are a true engineer you can tell my age by the fact that my favorite calculator is a TI-85.

[shadow]

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I'm an engineer too.

Shirt pockets! You gotta protect em! You gotta.

And if you are a true engineer you can tell my age by the fact that my favorite calculator is a TI-85.

I don't know. If you have kids in college, you're at least 10 years older than I am. My TI-85 is sitting in my desk drawer right next to me at work. In case anyone is jealous and gets any thieving ideas, my name is still scratched in the back from when I was required to buy it in Jr. High, just like every other 7th grader.

[desertrat]

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I'm an engineer too.

Shirt pockets! You gotta protect em! You gotta.

And if you are a true engineer you can tell my age by the fact that my favorite calculator is a TI-85.

I'm more the rebellious type... an HP-49G sort of guy. Love that RPN. Now I have an emulator app on my phone. It's the one true calculator!

[Deepthinker]

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I'm an engineer too.

Shirt pockets! You gotta protect em! You gotta.

And if you are a true engineer you can tell my age by the fact that my favorite calculator is a TI-85.

Yes, I had one of those. Until I got into the Utah State Engineering program and they required that I use the HP48 GX, which is now my favorite calculator. In fact, I have the Android app for the HP48 (although it looks massive on my tablet):

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .x48&hl=en

There is one for the TI-8X series as well (which desertrat mentioned), including the TI-85:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ipro&hl=en

[GoodBoy]

Yes, I had one of those. Until I got into the Utah State Engineering program and they required that I use the HP48 GX, which is now my favorite calculator. In fact, I have the Android app for the HP48 (although it looks massive on my tablet):

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .x48&hl=en

There is one for the TI-8X series as well (which desertrat mentioned), including the TI-85:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ipro&hl=en

Ha! I already have both of those apps installed on my Android phone. I still don't understand how to use all the functions on the HP 48 and HP 49 calculators, but that didn't stop me from thinking I needed it. I went through the BYU engineering program in the mid 90s and most students were using the HP48G. But I couldn't justify buying a new one since I was dirt poor and already had the TI. Now most students have TI calculators that I have seen.

[Deepthinker]

Yes, I had one of those. Until I got into the Utah State Engineering program and they required that I use the HP48 GX, which is now my favorite calculator. In fact, I have the Android app for the HP48 (although it looks massive on my tablet):

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .x48&hl=en

There is one for the TI-8X series as well (which desertrat mentioned), including the TI-85:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ipro&hl=en

Ha! I already have both of those apps installed on my Android phone. I still don't understand how to use all the functions on the HP 48 and HP 49 calculators, but that didn't stop me from thinking I needed it. I went through the BYU engineering program in the mid 90s and most students were using the HP48G. But I couldn't justify buying a new one since I was dirt poor and already had the TI. Now most students have TI calculators that I have seen.

You really are one of those geeky engineers. Just like me.

I couldn't afford the 48GX either at the time, but it was a requirement. It was a lot of money for starving college students.

[Ghost]

I can often relate to your approaches to things. I'm with you on wanting to be around those in my LDS community. Although I have never gone "inactive" before, I haven't attended a lot of classes at church in recent years due to a combination of chronic tardiness and having a calling that gives me a legitimate excuse to be doing other things during church.

When I do sit in on a class, it reminds me just how far my views have drifted away from orthodoxy. I used to enjoy commenting in class, even throughout my faith transition. But it's become difficult for me to find much to contribute now within the by-the-book flow of the conversation.

[GoodBoy]

I can often relate to your approaches to things. I'm with you on wanting to be around those in my LDS community. Although I have never gone "inactive" before, I haven't attended a lot of classes at church in recent years due to a combination of chronic tardiness and having a calling that gives me a legitimate excuse to be doing other things during church.

When I do sit in on a class, it reminds me just how far my views have drifted away from orthodoxy. I used to enjoy commenting in class, even throughout my faith transition. But it's become difficult for me to find much to contribute now within the by-the-book flow of the conversation.

Paintworm I presume? It's good to see you again.

I hate going to classes as well. It is painful to sit there listening to things that you know are just not factual.