Can't uncork the bottle.

[JENuWIN]

I am a 40ish year old member living in the Mormon belt. Before the NOM page went off line for a while, I was a lurker off and on for several years. I had arrived to a place where I really felt okay about church history controversies and other bothering discoveries and was enjoying my calling as EQ instructor.

Something happened to me in November and December 2016. I started feeling very numb about topics that I had revisited as part of my diligence in trying to justify different gospel teachings. I can swallow and even embrace many teachings that simply require faith. Others, not so much. I realized recently that I need some sort of support outside of my own self affirmations and efforts to keep a neutral outlook on the Church despite my further light and knowledge. I had a six month gap in temple attendance and went to a session in December to try and bring some peace. It brought nothing but more confusion and I left worse off that when I started that day.

My wife made a comment about her cousins disaffecting from the Church and wondered how long it would be until someone in her immediate family did the same. Her tone was almost accepting but I know it needs more testing to be certain. Around the same time her family member were visiting and gave the old "only people under Lucifer's influence leave or disaffect from the Church"- or something of that nature. Eh gad..

I got to a boiling point in December when we were called to do an enormous amount of preparation for the Ward Christmas party. It seemed simple enough at first, but then more and more time was consumed as we got closer to the date. On the day of the party, my wife was in tears because of her stress level caused by the labor involved. Fortunately, she realized how we had been taken advantage of and vowed us to never commit to something like this again. Christ would keep it simple and would not approve of what this was doing to my family during what should be the happiest time of the year. I was enraged and determined to give the Bishop a talking to. For my wife’s sake, I refrained, but it took weeks for me to cool down. The Church demands way more time of people and their families then Christ would ever approve of in my opinion.

I hope I can find a middle way that is fulfilling and keep me sane. Leaving, sadly will probably never be an option for me. - JENuWIN

[Linked]

Welcome JENuWIN! Sorry to hear about all the stress the Christmas party brought, sometimes leaders just don't realize or don't care about the strain they put on the members. This is a great place to vent and get feedback. I look forward to your posts!

[Korihor]

Never say never my friend.
Of course, we can sometimes easily predict the foreseeable future. My sympathies to your plight.

My sympathies regarding the Ward Christmas Party insanity. Been there. The last few big church activities we have attended have been really nice (relatively speaking), we just show up. But we are still burdened with guilt of not helping more because we were always the family to committed way too much time and effort into it.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why they don't have a better system by now to plan these large events.

The temple was a big item for me as well. I haven't been to a session in quite a while and I can't say I miss it anymore. But I did miss it when my shelf first crashed.

Please come here and vent, rant and complain as much as you'd like. I do it all the time.

[MalcolmVillager]

Welcome. This is a great space. There some very experienced and we'll studied folks on here. It is helpful to converse, share, lurk, whatever to realize you are not crazy or the village idiot (the is me).

I can totally relate. I was always so strong in the church (tons of leadership, still in HPG leadership), and never really doubted. Things just sort of started to pile on the shelf and when it crashed, it fell hard. I was in denial for months as I tried to put the shelf back up and balance the issues again. One day I consciously let myself really ask the questions. What if it isn't true? What if JS made it all up? What if there isn't even a God? What if there is, but it isn't anthropomorphic and doesn't talk to us?

It was terrifying. I freaked out. I cried (yeah 40 yo man). I had nobody to talk to. I watched youtube videos, read websites, bought books, and listened to podcasts non stop. I realized the "the dominant narrative of the church is not true" ( Richard Bushman). I also realized the neither are any of the other churches or philosophies of man "true" or the "one true church".

Therein lies the dilemma. I am LDS by birth, tribe, and participation. I am happily married to a fairly TBM woman (who I am ever so gently working on) and raising 5 daughters on the north end of the MorCor. I live in a very mormon world and work for a very mormon company. Life is good, and it just happens to be very mormon.

I don't get to choose to change all those things. I love people and all my relationships. There has to be a way to do this. A middle way. And NOM was my answer. Not just the site and the people here, but the way of life. It causes a ton of internal battles, but you have to pick them right?

I still love to study and listen to mormon theology and history. Not because it will teach me how to gain salvation or even happiness (although like all philosophies of man, it has some highlights that work for me) but to be prepared for the inevitable conversations that will come when I will need to defend myself. Some day I will do something to get on all the radars around me. I already am for most close people. I have had to talk with DW and parents. I want to be well studied and logical, not flippant or selfish/convenient in my responses (the opposite of most of JS's later revelations).

I still attend most weeks ( I use any excuse possible to get out, but 85% there). I avoid the temple at all costs but still did one session, went to a wedding, and 2 baptisms FTD with daughters last year. The temple does nothing for me now, although it is quiet and beautiful. I drink coffee which DW is mostly ok with so long as nobody else knows. I take off garments as often as possible but still wear them 90% of the time (gotta wear some kind of underwear anyway, right?!).

Anyway. Find your terms that don't get you shunned, shamed, labeled, or kicked out of the tribe. Your relationships are wa more important than some unknowable theories!

I found this quote this morning that has been share often on NOM. I like the rest of the quote, that isn't so often shared.

"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. I would not interfere with any one's religion, either to strengthen it or to weaken it. I am not able to believe one's religion can affect his hereafter one way or the other, no matter what that religion may be. But it may easily be a great comfort to him in this life--hence it is a valuable possession to him."
- Mark Twain, a Biography

[wtfluff]

Anyway. Find your terms that don't get you shunned, shamed, labeled, or kicked out of the tribe.

What does one do if they were never really part of the tribe?

And... Welcome JENuWIN.

welcome-mat.jpg (16.48 KiB) Viewed 6380 times

[Silver Girl]

Welcome to the NOM family, JENuWIN! I think everyone here knows the type of exhaustion and burnout your wife experienced. I hope that adds to her shelf - each person has his/her own crash-level for the shelf, but once things start piling up, it's difficult to ignore them.

Good for the two of you, for drawing boundaries on the time you're willing to invest going forward. The church takes & takes & takes, and it drains us completely (financially, spiritually and physically). They also make us pay a fee in order to work for them.

As others said, this is a great group - it saved my sanity when I went through the trauma (I was on the old site under the name "Scared"). I look forward to your posts.

[Emower]

Welcome back. I was distressed when the old site went down because I had just found it and thought, "This is exactly what I need." This is a really great place with great people who can give great advice. I sympathize with the sentiment of not leaving being an option. It doesn't feel like it is for me either. But what is an option is living on my own terms. I may not be able to just quit attending without huge waves, but I don't have to accept callings I don't want, I don't have to go to the temple if I don't want, and I don't have to bow my head and keep quiet in SS if I don't want. Live life on your terms. It just requires some diplomacy. But, I don't live in Utah or Idaho so it is a lot simpler for me.

[MalcolmVillager]

Anyway. Find your terms that don't get you shunned, shamed, labeled, or kicked out of the tribe.

What does one do if they were never really part of the tribe?

And... Welcome JENuWIN.
welcome-mat.jpg

Good ? WTF. I don't think I am a good authority to respond. It is probably just as hard to be an outsider or NOM when around the tribe. It is tricky for anyone I suppose, just a different angle.

[Newme]

The Church demands way more time of people and their families then Christ would ever approve of in my opinion.

I agree - and that goes in multiple ways - financially, socially, psychologically, energy & time-wise.
I do love how the church encourages serving one another - but it really needs to be in moderation - spread out more than it often is.

I hope I can find a middle way that is fulfilling and keep me sane. Leaving, sadly will probably never be an option for me. - JENuWIN

I'm trying the middle way too. What I've been doing lately is supporting my DH by sitting with him in Sacrament meeting (my i-phone as a sanity saver) and Gospel Essentials (again I-phone is a must - good commercial, right?). The last hour of worshiping prophets - I just can't stomach and I don't sit by DH anyway - so I call 2 hours good and go. Sanity saved. Oh, and about once a month, I go to a secular meeting instead of church.

[No Tof]

Welcome. Nom is a good place to find yourself in a changing paradigm.

Some of us feel more comfortable quite far from a middle way but still have loose ties to the church. As long as you can be ok with hearing differing points of view; something I found foreign in my church time, you will find good advice here.

Many are like you who attend and live a mostly mormon lifestyle. Some of us only have a Dspouse to keep us in the loop at all.

The good comes when you realize you hold all the cards and can play the game according to your own plan. That is when life becomes life again and not a role in a predetermined play.

Hope you find the answers youre looking for.