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Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:14 pm
by RyanandCarinne
New Here, Wanted to Share Our Video.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=CeTzfSALosY

We're on a journey and looking for support. We thought this video would be a unique attempt to publicly challenge bigotry in the LDS church, from the inside. Please share it so it can be more effective at this aim!!!

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:31 am
by document

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:58 am
by document
I wrote up a response to the video on YouTube, but I thought I would share it here:
I don't think you will have a problem. I felt very much the same way for years and had no issue being a member of the LDS church. When I started to become someone more vocal about it and asking questions of other members, I found out that most of the membership is like you in some shape or another. A dear relative of mine revealed during my journey that they believe the church is in error when not extending priesthood to women (this is a person as "Mormon" as it gets). In other words, the person who accepts all the doctrines and teachings of the LDS church is the minority.

The institutional church is this way as well when they reject doctrines taught and perpetuated by former prophets. Two examples of this are Adam-God doctrine, and the doctrine of priesthood / temple exclusivity to people not of African descent. While many times one is called a theory and the other a policy, looking back into statements and beliefs at the time, these were most definitely doctrines.

Here is what I found from years and years of cafeteria Mormonism: you just have to know when it is OK to speak out and when it is OK to not. There are some hot topics, and oftentimes it is just knowing your local leadership and what their hot button issues are.

For me, under my first bishop, he understood that I did not take scripture literally but seriously, that I was a Trinitarian (I loved Abinadi's impassioned speech before King Noah), and that I mostly stayed in the church because the culture was comfortable and I found a place for me. I didn't challenge others' beliefs, but I studied and prayed on my own. When he was replaced, my new bishop did not see things the same way that he did and life in the church became quite a struggle.

Eventually, for me the theological differences became too great and I left the religion for another Christian sect. My "unorthodox" views of Mormonism were essentially that of "orthodox" (Nicaean) Christianity. Yet, I still consider myself Mormon, just not a member of the LDS church nor a believer in the faith. I grew up Mormon, my thinking is often Mormon, and I love the culture and people. My priest often refers to me (especially when I show up to church in a white shirt and tie) as the "Mormon Episcopalian". It is part of who I am.

I genuinely wish you the best of luck. You seem like a sincere couple. Mormonism works for many people, and the culture is one that helps them immensely. It looks to me like it works for you and I hope you are able to stay with your particular blend of Cafeteria.

So, with a slightly modified Bob Ross goodbye might say:

"Happy Mormoning, and God bless, my friends"

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:22 pm
by MoPag
You guys are so cute!!! That was a really sweet video and I know it must have taken a lot of guts to make it and put it out there.

I love your testimonies of Heavenly Mother. But I think this is where you are going to get into the most trouble. GBH did say in an interview that we don't pray to Her. And I think the idea of a powerful female Goddess can trip some insecurities in the male priesthood leadership of the church. The leaders of the church will not make room for anyone who questions their authority. If you really want to stay, edit that part out of your video. Replace it with something along the lines of wanting to know more about HM and wanting to build a relationship with Her.

If you can't do that I totally understand. When I found Her, and actually started to pray to Her, I knew I could never go back. I started exploring Wicca and Paganism since those belief systems allow for worship of both God and Goddess. I've found a lovely spiritual home there. But I am still active in my LDS ward. I still feel like I have work to do inside of Mormonism.

You both seem like lovely, sincere people. I hope you church leaders can see and appreciate that. If they don't, (or even if they do) please know that you have a home here.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:26 pm
by MoPag
document wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:58 am

My priest often refers to me (especially when I show up to church in a white shirt and tie) as the "Mormon Episcopalian". It is part of who I am.

I love this! I'm the "Mormon Pagan" in my little group. It'll always be a part of me too. :D

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:49 am
by MalcolmVillager
Very cool video. Let us know how the fallout ends up. I am sure most friends and family will be fine with it. Leadership roulette will be interesting to see the response.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:37 am
by FiveFingerMnemonic
Welcome!. You guys are very brave. I loved your well done paper on D&C revelation changes.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:21 pm
by Korihor
Wow, so fun to see you here.
I just saw a post with your video in my Fbook feed (mormon stories podcast group?) So it was really fun to see you again here.

I think your efforts story will be very interesting to follow.

Best wishes to you.

Question: Briefly, how did you come to the decision to not play "Santa" with your kids? Was that an easy decision for you or a tough one?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:35 pm
by moksha
My thought is that 21st Century Mormons share the same pews as Dark Ages Mormons every Sunday. Out of respect for the Prime Directive of non-interference, most 21st Century Mormons avoid talking about issues related to the enlightenment and the scientific progress of their own age. The Dark Ages Mormons are not above burning one of their own at the Stake Center.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:24 pm
by FiveFingerMnemonic
moksha wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:35 pm
My thought is that 21st Century Mormons share the same pews as Dark Ages Mormons every Sunday. Out of respect for the Prime Directive of non-interference, most 21st Century Mormons avoid talking about issues related to the enlightenment and the scientific progress of their own age. The Dark Ages Mormons are not above burning one of their own at the Stake Center.
This is gold! :lol:

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:43 am
by Its_Complicated
I watched and shared your video on a few FB groups I am involved with. It seemed to make the rounds among LDS/Mormon groups yesterday. Best wishes to your family and may all of us find that place where it is safe to be ourselves.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:14 am
by Newme
MoPag wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:22 pm
I love your testimonies of Heavenly Mother. But I think this is where you are going to get into the most trouble. GBH did say in an interview that we don't pray to Her. And I think the idea of a powerful female Goddess can trip some insecurities in the male priesthood leadership of the church. The leaders of the church will not make room for anyone who questions their authority. If you really want to stay, edit that part out of your video. Replace it with something along the lines of wanting to know more about HM and wanting to build a relationship with Her.
At home, I now pray, "Dear Heavenly Father and Mother." But at church, I remind myself to pray the less correct way ;) mostly to focus on the spirit of the prayer rather than people freaking out over my unconventional ways.

Scripture says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he THEM."
That means, God is not just a Mr., but also a Mrs. And to me, it makes sense - as above so below. Most people when in agony call out for their moms. Although both moms and dads contribute to creation, the mother's body is what creates the child most - the creator.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:59 pm
by MoPag
Newme wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:14 am
Scripture says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he THEM."
That means, God is not just a Mr., but also a Mrs. And to me, it makes sense - as above so below. Most people when in agony call out for their moms. Although both moms and dads contribute to creation, the mother's body is what creates the child most - the creator.
I totally agree. And I wasn't trying to discourage them from praying to HM. I pray to Goddess too. But there seems to be a precedent of ex-ing people who pray to Her. They said they wanted to stay in the church. I'm just worried that this will get them kicked out faster than anything else they mentioned. But hopefully I'm wrong.

Hey RyanandCarinne, any updates?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:54 pm
by Korihor
RyanandCarinne wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:14 pm
New Here, Wanted to Share Our Video.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=CeTzfSALosY

We're on a journey and looking for support. We thought this video would be a unique attempt to publicly challenge bigotry in the LDS church, from the inside. Please share it so it can be more effective at this aim!!!
Care to share any feedback to date?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:07 am
by Its_Complicated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kruVWrkefas

Here's everyone's update! I love these two, so cool that they have the courage to come forward and share their thoughts. I hope they end up on some kind of podcast or something in the future. I would love to hear more.

It does seem a tiny bit of back peddling but their original message of personal revelation is still there. Personal Revelation is so important, it one of the most awesome gifts that God can give His children.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:22 pm
by MoPag
Its_Complicated wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:07 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kruVWrkefas

Here's everyone's update! I love these two, so cool that they have the courage to come forward and share their thoughts. I hope they end up on some kind of podcast or something in the future. I would love to hear more.

It does seem a tiny bit of back peddling but their original message of personal revelation is still there. Personal Revelation is so important, it one of the most awesome gifts that God can give His children.
Thanks for posting the update. I think this one is less threatening to a TBM audience. That is probably what they were going for.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:32 pm
by Its_Complicated
According to her Sister-In-Law, they have been asked by the Bishop to meet with them after church this Sunday. A prayer or two on their behalf may be in order.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:14 pm
by Anon70
I hope all goes well tomorrow....

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:07 pm
by RyanandCarinne
Hi Everyone! We are so sorry for the long delay. We were completely overwhelmed with the amount of people that contacted us after our first video and then we felt strongly that we needed to get a second video done as soon as possible, so we haven’t had time to respond here. We still have a lot going on and feel we need to wait to respond to comments until later this week. We’ll check back here later this week and update you guys. Thank you so much for reaching out and being so friendly and supportive, it means the world to us. The biggest thing we’ve learned from doing these videos is there is a huge need for openness and discussion in the LDS church. There are so many people suffering silently and we believe it doesn’t need to be that way.

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:20 pm
by MalcolmVillager
We are anxious to hear your updates. What have people online said? What about ward members? What about family? And most importantly what about leaders and the formal church?

You guys rock though!