Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

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deacon blues
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Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by deacon blues » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:51 am

The purpose of the lesson is "To help class members recognize the Lord's hand in the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and to encourage them to study the Book of of Mormon, follow its teachings, and share it with others."

What if there were a different lesson designed to "Investigate the production of the BOM, exploring different viewpoints, and helping students understand why different people regard it variously as inspired scripture, inspired fiction, pseudepigrapha, or fraud?

Google lds.org , find lessons and manuals, and look under Sunday School to find the latest version of this lesson.
God is Love. God is Truth

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deacon blues
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by deacon blues » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:08 am

It's interesting to note that early church members were curious about the method of translating the Book of Mormon. At a church conference on October 25, 1831 "Brother Hyrum Smith said that he thought best that the information of the coming forth of the book of Mormon be related by Joseph himself to the Elders present that all might know for themselves. Brother Joseph Smith jr. said that it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c." (Far West Record pg. 23)(History of the Church: I pg. 220)
God is Love. God is Truth

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Corsair
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by Corsair » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:30 am

deacon blues wrote:It's interesting to note that early church members were curious about the method of translating the Book of Mormon. At a church conference on October 25, 1831 "Brother Hyrum Smith said that he thought best that the information of the coming forth of the book of Mormon be related by Joseph himself to the Elders present that all might know for themselves. Brother Joseph Smith jr. said that it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c." (Far West Record pg. 23)(History of the Church: I pg. 220)
It sounds like "Give Brother Joseph a Break" has been a policy since the founding of the church. The prophet seemed unable to foresee what a problem that speculation would be in the future for God's One True Church. Perhaps if Joseph had been more transparent about translation issues this might have carried over into more "delicate" issues like plural marriage. There are far too many missing details on how polygamy and polyandry should have been implemented.

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FoundMyOwnWay
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by FoundMyOwnWay » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:32 pm

Sounds like this is going to be a hard lesson to stomach. Fortunately I teach primary kids, so there is no fun in bringing up difficult ideas, but if I had to go listen to gospel doctrine I would have a hard time.

DrTxn
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by DrTxn » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:31 am

This made me think of the song All American Prophet from the BoM musical.

But dont let anybody see these plates
Except for you...
They are only for you to see...
Even if people ask you to show
The plates to them, DONT.
Just copy them onto normal paper.
Even thought this might make them
Question if the plates are real, or not,
This is sort of what God is going for....

then later....

Oh, God... why are you letting me die?
Without having me
Show people the plates?
Theyll have no proof I was
Telling the truth or not.
Theyll have to believe it just...
Cause.
Oh! I guess thats kinda what you
Were going for....
Blargggh...

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Corsair
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by Corsair » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:30 am

DrTxn wrote:This made me think of the song All American Prophet from the BoM musical.
Yes, that song contains an uncomfortable amount of truth if unverifiable religious claims are part of your life.

I find that I am in a very willy habit of looking forward to a lesson to see just what astonishing truth claims are still part of LDS culture. But the final result has so far achieved the hat trick of being:
  1. exactly what I feared
  2. boring
  3. not open for real discussion
At some point I need to just bow out of attending Sunday School. I was recently invited to attend the Teacher Development class, "Teaching in the Savior's Way." Of course, this is really just "Teaching in the Correlation Committee's Way" with a few common sense teaching strategies. I'm not sure it will be an improvement.

DrTxn
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by DrTxn » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:04 pm

I enjoy asking thought provoking questions. The last time I asked a question, people couldn't let it go and kept trying to answer it for the rest of class even though the lesson had moved on. Clearly the cog dis was high.

DrTxn
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by DrTxn » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:42 pm

I enjoy asking thought provoking questions. The last time I asked a question, people couldn't let it go and kept trying to answer it for the rest of class even though the lesson had moved on. Clearly the cog dis was high.

I think I am going to bring a replica of the original Pearl of Great Price to class and bring up the factoid that it was in fact Nephi that JS saw and said delivered him the plates. The original transcript has Nephi crossed out with Moroni but their was a copy of this document that was made a year after JS's death that only has Nephi. In addition, the Millenial Star and Times and Seasons also have articles with JS's Nephi claim. So Nephi came this close to being on top of all the temples perhaps holding the sword of Laban. This should start a good discussion.

DrTxn
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by DrTxn » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:53 pm

In reading the lesson, ideas keep coming in. D&C is such a fun topic.

The lesson says, "What was the plan of those who had stolen the 116 manuscript pages? (See D&C 10:10–19, 29–33. If Joseph had retranslated the lost material, they would have altered the words in the manuscript. They would have compared the altered original to the retranslation, trying to show that the two versions contradicted each other.)"

There are two versions where JS translated Matthew 26. Apparently he stopped during in June of 1831 and re picked up the work in September of 1831 so... we can actually see what would happen. Yes, the translations are different.

http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/twi ... scripture/

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nibbler
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by nibbler » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:12 pm

DrTxn wrote:The lesson says, "What was the plan of those who had stolen the 116 manuscript pages?
It's all speculation but I suspect that Lucy Harris destroyed them in hopes that doing so would free her husband from the hold that JS had over him.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Corsair
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Re: Lesson #4 Remember........the BOM

Post by Corsair » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:07 am

DrTxn wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:42 pm
I think I am going to bring a replica of the original Pearl of Great Price to class and bring up the factoid that it was in fact Nephi that JS saw and said delivered him the plates. The original transcript has Nephi crossed out with Moroni but their was a copy of this document that was made a year after JS's death that only has Nephi. In addition, the Millenial Star and Times and Seasons also have articles with JS's Nephi claim. So Nephi came this close to being on top of all the temples perhaps holding the sword of Laban. This should start a good discussion.
This was one topic that Richard Bushman did not address in "Rough Stone Rolling". Obviously he could not include every crazy story from Joseph's life and perhaps Bushman felt that this story was not worth putting in. But it does make revelation a much less clear communication channel.

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