#9-The Only True.....Church

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deacon blues
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#9-The Only True.....Church

Post by deacon blues » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:36 pm

I have learned so much in our discussions the last couple of weeks. FiveFingerMenomic pointed out that the LDS church shared and/or owed much of its doctrine to people such as Walter Scott and Alexander Campbell of the reformed Baptist movement. That was a real eye opener to me.

Lesson #9 talks a lot about D&C 20, which I recently learned owes a lot to a revelation received by Oliver Cowdery several months before the official organization of the church on April 6, 1830. The oldest known record of the revelations now in the D&C is called Manuscript Revelation Book 1. It came be found in the Joseph Smith Papers. These are handwritten versions of the revelations to Joseph Smith, and include part of a revelation give to Oliver Cowdery, sometime around June 1829. It seems a bit suspicious to me that several pages (I count at least 11) are removed from this book. However, part of the revelation to Oliver concerning the organization of the church is still found in the book.

A handwritten version of the complete revelation to Oliver was donated to the LDS church in 1959 by descendants Symonds Ryder, the guy who is most famous for leaving the church when his name was misspelled in a revelation. (I'll bet there is more to that story)
The revelation includes instructions on baptism, the duties of Priests and Teachers, sacrament instructions,and a few other items that are similar to D&C 20.

One significant difference is Oliver's revelation says "Now therefore whoso repenteth & humbleth himself before me and desireth to be baptized in my name ye shall baptize them."
Joseph and/or the Lord changed this to: "All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins and are willing to takeupon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto a remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church."

It seems a small change, but it lead to a disagreement between Joseph and Oliver and several of the Whitmers, that wasn't resolved until Joseph received D&C 28, which explains to Oliver and the others, that Joseph is the only one who can receive commandments and revelations.
God is Love. God is Truth

Bloodhound98
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by Bloodhound98 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:14 pm

So I am very early on in my post TBM life and the only thing for sure I know is that the LDS Church is not the One and Only True Church. I had a great conversation with my mom and asked her what would she do if they dropped that tagline from Sunday School/GC/RS/ECT. She said she didn't care because she never thought about it that way.
I realize for myself I used logic to build my testimony and logic told me they were all wrong and we had the only True Church. I am still in the process but it's never been more clear that this is what sets us apart and Ultimately what dooms us. We can't say such a lofty thing and not expect to be judged and investigated because of that statement.
I wonder if eventually they will just stop saying it all together. I really wish we could be counted among the other Christian Churches and not such a radical off shoot of Christianity.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:21 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:36 pm
Lesson #9 talks a lot about D&C 20, which I recently learned owes a lot to a revelation received by Oliver Cowdery several months before the official organization of the church on April 6, 1830. The oldest known record of the revelations now in the D&C is called Manuscript Revelation Book 1. It came be found in the Joseph Smith Papers. These are handwritten versions of the revelations to Joseph Smith, and include part of a revelation give to Oliver Cowdery, sometime around June 1829. It seems a bit suspicious to me that several pages (I count at least 11) are removed from this book. However, part of the revelation to Oliver concerning the organization of the church is still found in the book.

A handwritten version of the complete revelation to Oliver was donated to the LDS church in 1959 by descendants Symonds Ryder, the guy who is most famous for leaving the church when his name was misspelled in a revelation. (I'll bet there is more to that story)
The revelation includes instructions on baptism, the duties of Priests and Teachers, sacrament instructions,and a few other items that are similar to D&C 20.

One significant difference is Oliver's revelation says "Now therefore whoso repenteth & humbleth himself before me and desireth to be baptized in my name ye shall baptize them."
Joseph and/or the Lord changed this to: "All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins and are willing to takeupon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto a remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church."

It seems a small change, but it lead to a disagreement between Joseph and Oliver and several of the Whitmers, that wasn't resolved until Joseph received D&C 28, which explains to Oliver and the others, that Joseph is the only one who can receive commandments and revelations.
Ah you've been reading your Daymon Smith book eh? :) His material on Cowdery's huge involvement in early church doctrine was fascinating. The poor guy got sidelined by Joseph and erased from history later by Brigham. D&C 20 is absolutely Cowdery's major contribution.

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Incidentally, Mark Staker doesn't seem to buy the misspelled name reason for Symonds disaffection either. He lists a bunch of historical evidence where his name was wrong on all sorts of records prior that never caused offence. If I'm remembering correctly from the book, Joseph's plans for the law of consecration leaked to him before other members knew about it were the primary factor.

Edited to add Staker's observations from "Hearken O ye People":
Although Ryder may have later mentioned to Hinsdale Rigdon’s misspelling of his name in the newspaper, he did not mention the spelling incident in his own recollections. Instead, he wrote of his slow descent into doubting over the summer as he began to focus, not on a misspelled name, but on the principle of consecration.8

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Rob4Hope
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:42 am

I don't understand the grey area people swim in over this topic. My whole life I was taught the Only True Church doctrine, and yet those who taught it also ignore the discrepancies.

How can this be?

The church thrives,... nay...DEPENDS on its members being either uneducated about these discrepancies, or unable to recognize them for what they are: a contradiction to being the "only true Church".

Mind control...all the way. It baffles me now I'm on the outside and see it.

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Rafael
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by Rafael » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:44 pm

Bloodhound98 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:14 pm
So I am very early on in my post TBM life and the only thing for sure I know is that the LDS Church is not the One and Only True Church. I had a great conversation with my mom and asked her what would she do if they dropped that tagline from Sunday School/GC/RS/ECT. She said she didn't care because she never thought about it that way.
I realize for myself I used logic to build my testimony and logic told me they were all wrong and we had the only True Church. I am still in the process but it's never been more clear that this is what sets us apart and Ultimately what dooms us. We can't say such a lofty thing and not expect to be judged and investigated because of that statement.
I wonder if eventually they will just stop saying it all together. I really wish we could be counted among the other Christian Churches and not such a radical off shoot of Christianity.
Eventually, I hope. I grew up in a different church, but one that made the same claim to be the one true bridge to salvation. Now, and this has taken some decades, it is far more ecumenical and thus accepting - except for its "ultra" fringe groups and offshoots - of other religious paths. And of its more narrow past and even of its misdeeds - and these were considerable - it is now silent.

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moksha
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by moksha » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:49 pm

Ancient Temple Ceremony Revealed

"I Osiris being born of goodly parents, therefore it came to pass that all that is hateful in Unas hath been brought unto thee, and all the evil words which have been spoken in his name. Come, O Thoth, and take them unto Osiris, bring all the evil words which have been spoken and place them in the hollow of thy hand; thou shalt not escape therefrom, thou shalt not escape therefrom.

It came to pass that whosoever marcheth, marcheth with his ka. Horus marcheth with his ka, Set marcheth with his ka, Thoth marcheth with his ka, Sep marcheth with his ka, Osiris marcheth with his ka, Khent-maati marcheth with his ka; and thy tet shall march with thy ka. Hail, Unas, the hand of thy ka is before thee. Hail, Unas, the hand of thy ka is behind thee. Hail, Unas, the leg of thy ka is before thee. Hail, Unas, the leg of thy ka is behind thee.

Osiris Unas, I have given unto thee the Eye of Horus, and thy face is filled therewith, and the perfume thereof spreadeth over thee. The libations which are poured out by thy son, which are poured out by Horus, are for thee, O Osiris, and they are for thee O Unas. I have come, and I have brought unto thee the Eye of Horus that thou mayest refresh thy heart therewith, I have placed it beneath thy feet, and I give unto thee whatsoever hath come forth from thy body that thy heart may not cease to beat through want thereof. Thy voice shall never depart from thee, thy voice shall never depart from thee. Thy Pyramid is true and the Book of Breathings too.

I say these things in the name of Atum, Amen.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by moksha » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:32 pm

Don't let that bird up above fool you with that strange post. He took the ceremony from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and applied the reinterpreting power of a seer stone to only part of the opening line and the last sentence. Was that bird being lazy or deceptive? You decide.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Corsair
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Re: #9-The Only True.....Church

Post by Corsair » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:32 pm
Don't let that bird up above fool you with that strange post. He took the ceremony from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and applied the reinterpreting power of a seer stone to only part of the opening line and the last sentence. Was that bird being lazy or deceptive? You decide.
Was there a rock or seer stone involved in this translation/revelation/inspiration?

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