Interesting Take

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Mad Jax
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Interesting Take

Post by Mad Jax » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 pm

I don't know if anybody has posted this but it's been produced relatively recently. It's more "generic" but as a brother, son, SO, etc who has experienced this change I think it is pretty applicable to the LDS experience of struggling with faith and having that affect others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUA9Rh2MCY
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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SeeNoEvil
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by SeeNoEvil » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:03 am

Mad Jax wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:10 pm
I don't know if anybody has posted this but it's been produced relatively recently. It's more "generic" but as a brother, son, SO, etc who has experienced this change I think it is pretty applicable to the LDS experience of struggling with faith and having that affect others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUA9Rh2MCY
THIS IS EXCELLENT! I am just seeing this and and so glad I took 12 minutes out of my day to listen. This should be required listening to everyone! Thank you so much for sharing. A great message for us who have embarked on this journey to discover and to our spouses and loved ones who want to cast us aside just because we no longer share their same belief. Thank you Mad Jax!
"Every event that has taken place in this universe has led you to this moment.
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown

"Never arrive @ a point where you know everything - Korihor57

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Newme
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by Newme » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:43 pm

He explains it empathically as well as logically.
A couple things: he assumed it's husbands (not wives) who have a faith crisis.
IMO, Atheism is illogical. Agnosticism is more logical. And belief in something higher than us is intuitively smarter.

Thinking one must be religious or Atheist is logical fallacy all-or-nothing (polarized) thinking. Many people eventually go through periods of religious involvement, doubting & then reaching a compromise- realizing it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I don't believe in Jesus as human sacrifice scapegoat, but I still believe in intelligent design (to much evidence to not believe it), and I believe as Jesus & Buddah taught, "the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." This seems obvious & there's no doubt in my mind. The details of God - I don't know & if they're honest, both Theists & Atheists don't really know either.

Still, overall, he may be helping lots of mixed-belief marriages.
Thanks for sharing this.

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by MalcolmVillager » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:31 pm

That was great. Thanks for sharing. It was so logical. Sadly, that isn't how these spouses think though. Backfire effect.

It was good to hear though!

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Give It Time
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by Give It Time » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:13 pm

It was very good. He makes and great points.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Give It Time
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by Give It Time » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:05 pm

I'm posting again, because the words were failing me. I have a better idea of how to express what I want to say.

Aside from the logical fallacy pointed out by Newme, I would like to add that I take exception to his saying, twice, it wasn't a choice.

It wasn't a choice in the regard that it wasn't akin to walking into a grocery store and choosing the English Muffins over the white, wheat, sourdough or rye breads on the shelves.

The way I view it is expressed in the song, "Everybody Loves Louis" from Sunday In The Park With George. The character, Dot, needed a father for her child. George, the child's biological father, was an emotionally unavailable artist who probably wouldn't be able to provide for the child, let alone connect with him in any real way. Louis was crazy about Dot and though Dot didn't love Louis, she chose to marry him, because he would be a good father to her child. She explains it for the audience, this:

We lose things and then we choose things

In other words, circumstances put her in a situation where what she would have wanted, what she would have preferred was not available. So, she made a choice--not the choice she wanted' but a choice--to marry Louis. She could have held out hope and stayed in Paris and tried to "make" George be the loving father and partner she needed, but she knew that would somehow kill the artist in George. She could have simply stayed in Paris, gone to her family or friends. She had options and she made a choice.

For my part, I was hurting immensely and either my testimony broke or I did. I could have chosen to believe, but probably would have needed even more intense mental health help than I have, now. It would have been harder on my marriage and children. I can tell you my husband-at-the-time wasn't all that supportive. My children didn't need to see their mother go down the rabbit hole of trying to remain faithful to a God she considered immoral. So, I chose. I chose to find answers. I chose to get help. I chose to seek support. I chose to face reality. I chose to see God as loving and kind and actually giving a damn about His standards and daughters.

It is very important to see ourselves as having chosen. It holds us accountable, there is more personal power in the statement. It's being grown-up.

Otherwise, I thought his sentiments excellent.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Mad Jax
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by Mad Jax » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:06 pm

Newme wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:43 pm
A couple things: he assumed it's husbands (not wives) who have a faith crisis.
In this particular case, he's giving a theoretical response to the spouse of a man who he met and what he might say to her to convince her. I think it's just easier to pick a particular subject and speak accordingly, rather than to constantly worry about inclusive pronouns for all hypothetical situations.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Newme
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Re: Interesting Take

Post by Newme » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:35 am

Mad Jax wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:06 pm
Newme wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:43 pm
A couple things: he assumed it's husbands (not wives) who have a faith crisis.
In this particular case, he's giving a theoretical response to the spouse of a man who he met and what he might say to her to convince her. I think it's just easier to pick a particular subject and speak accordingly, rather than to constantly worry about inclusive pronouns for all hypothetical situations.
:lol: Amen, sister zer!

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