Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Thoughtful
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Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Thoughtful » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:50 pm

I was talking with someone who told me she made a deal with her husband. Backstory is her TBM husband had a soft porn "addiction" early in their marriage. They spent a few years fighting it and he no longer uses it. She is a colleague of mine who recently learned that pornography addiction isn't necessarily a real thing, and assuming it's produced reputable, probably doesn't hurt anything. When she mentioned that to her husband and he started making comments about watching something together.

She told him she would, on two conditions. 1- video is ethically sourced, and 2- he reads the CES letter first.

Anyway -- this made me think, is there a trade you think your spouse would make, to take a big step down the rabbit hole?

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:12 am

I think the church could have good success with a disaffected spouse exchange program. If your spouse falls into disbelief you can find another couple with the opposite gender disbeliever and make a trade. :)

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slavereeno
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by slavereeno » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:06 pm

Hmmm, I don't think there is anything my wife would want that I can give, that I don't already try to give.

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Corsair
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Corsair » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:37 pm

I have joked with other apostates that a "Trading Places" program might work. Just have a bishop preside over two mixed-faith marriages and swap the spouses so that two heteronormative couples emerge. One marriage would be "temple worthy" and the other couple would be "Jack Daniels worthy". They could bargain with children like free agents in the NFL draft. Surely some lawyer in the ward could donate his time and talents getting the paperwork in place.

The believing couple could have their former sealings be fast tracked to the Office of the First Presidency for appropriate dissolution and get to temple right away. The other couple could simply live in sin like filth apostates with no waiting period! Two quick divorces can result in one eternal marriage and one dumpster fire of whatever it is that apostates do between consenting adults.

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wtfluff
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by wtfluff » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:25 pm

Corsair wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:37 pm
I have joked with other apostates that a "Trading Places" program might work. Just have a bishop preside over two mixed-faith marriages and swap the spouses so that two heteronormative couples emerge. One marriage would be "temple worthy" and the other couple would be "Jack Daniels worthy". They could bargain with children like free agents in the NFL draft. Surely some lawyer in the ward could donate his time and talents getting the paperwork in place.

The believing couple could have their former sealings be fast tracked to the Office of the First Presidency for appropriate dissolution and get to temple right away. The other couple could simply live in sin like filth apostates with no waiting period! Two quick divorces can result in one eternal marriage and one dumpster fire of whatever it is that apostates do between consenting adults.
For some strange reason, this description sounds a bit like the mormon version of the afterlife. :shock:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light...

Reuben
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Reuben » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:25 am

wtfluff, you are priceless! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm unsure of how much filth a couple with TK smoothies could get up to... and I just realized that I want to give it exactly zero more minutes of thought.

Regarding the trade, there are a few issues.

First, my wife has been far enough down the early church history rabbit hole to know what the main issues are. In that time period, she's only missing out on 1) details of polygamy (In Sacred Loneliness might be a good choice here) and 2) different, simpler interpretations that are more likely to be true. So her end of the trade would have to include filling these two holes.

Second, I don't think going down that rabbit hole would be enough. She seems to be much more affected by issues in current policy and culture. I'm not sure what else she could do in this regard. Every individual issue is easy to write off as a one-off thing. I relate them to systemic problems I see, but while she respects my opinions and is willing to listen to them, she hasn't adopted most of them.

Third, I would want it to be fair and above all not catastrophic for our family, so I don't think a trade is feasible. Anything she could do that would result in a faith crisis would need to be counterbalanced to make up for the fallout. For various reasons I don't want to get into, currently, the fallout would likely be immense. Further, after being in a new country only a couple of years, the church is still our main means of community support. It does such a horrific job at the most minimal support after a faith crisis - simply not rubbing salt in the wounds - that it's ridiculous to expect any support from it at all. We would probably thrash and then sink.

I think I would at least have to offer her a replacement community, tutors for our kids for a year, weekly therapy, and something to make up for loss of standing in her family. I couldn't get away with offering less, because she would work out that she would need those things, too.
Not all those who wander are lost.

Thoughtful
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Thoughtful » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:28 pm

Reuben wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:25 am
wtfluff, you are priceless! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm unsure of how much filth a couple with TK smoothies could get up to... and I just realized that I want to give it exactly zero more minutes of thought.

Regarding the trade, there are a few issues.

First, my wife has been far enough down the early church history rabbit hole to know what the main issues are. In that time period, she's only missing out on 1) details of polygamy (In Sacred Loneliness might be a good choice here) and 2) different, simpler interpretations that are more likely to be true. So her end of the trade would have to include filling these two holes.

Second, I don't think going down that rabbit hole would be enough. She seems to be much more affected by issues in current policy and culture. I'm not sure what else she could do in this regard. Every individual issue is easy to write off as a one-off thing. I relate them to systemic problems I see, but while she respects my opinions and is willing to listen to them, she hasn't adopted most of them.

Third, I would want it to be fair and above all not catastrophic for our family, so I don't think a trade is feasible. Anything she could do that would result in a faith crisis would need to be counterbalanced to make up for the fallout. For various reasons I don't want to get into, currently, the fallout would likely be immense. Further, after being in a new country only a couple of years, the church is still our main means of community support. It does such a horrific job at the most minimal support after a faith crisis - simply not rubbing salt in the wounds - that it's ridiculous to expect any support from it at all. We would probably thrash and then sink.

I think I would at least have to offer her a replacement community, tutors for our kids for a year, weekly therapy, and something to make up for loss of standing in her family. I couldn't get away with offering less, because she would work out that she would need those things, too.
Yeah. We get into it pretty deep, don't we? It's so hard. I feel for both of you.

Reuben
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Reuben » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:30 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:28 pm
Yeah. We get into it pretty deep, don't we? It's so hard. I feel for both of you.
You know what? So do I. But I mostly feel for myself right now because I'm having a hard time with reading comprehension. I was too serious, so to make up for it...

Hmm... maybe I could get her to read In Sacred Loneliness if I throw on something skimpy and sing a song I just made up called "I Want To Pour Syrup On My Love For You." Or would that come across as too desperate?
Not all those who wander are lost.

Thoughtful
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:56 am

Reuben wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:30 am
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:28 pm
Yeah. We get into it pretty deep, don't we? It's so hard. I feel for both of you.
You know what? So do I. But I mostly feel for myself right now because I'm having a hard time with reading comprehension. I was too serious, so to make up for it...

Hmm... maybe I could get her to read In Sacred Loneliness if I throw on something skimpy and sing a song I just made up called "I Want To Pour Syrup On My Love For You." Or would that come across as too desperate?
Bwahahaha.

I might let Spouseman win our feud on wordscapes...

I did love your original answer though, because it's so relatable and speaks to the underlying theme of the thread.

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Linked
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Re: Tradeoff-- only semi serious

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:04 pm

I think I would be willing to make the same deal your friend offered. I would be willing to watch porn with my DW if she was willing to start down the rabbit hole.

But honestly, I feel like I've given everything I possibly can just to keep our marriage together. I don't feel like I have anything more I can give.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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