The "D" Word

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Stig
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The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:53 am

So, my disaffection took root almost six years ago. When I came clean with my wife a few months later, I told her I would keep it to myself, not try to influence the kids away from how we agreed to raise them in the first place, not go public with my disaffection relative to our ward and neighbors. For the past 5+ years I've been living like this and I've reached a point of exhaustion. Through sobs and tears last night I told my wife how painful it is to be reminded on a daily basis how much I've disappointed her. She doesn't do anything overtly to make me feel that way; I just know what her expectations were when we got married and I know I can't fulfill the spiritual, and most important to her, elements of what she wants out of life. For the first time, the "D" word - divorce - came up in our conversation. She's been watching me in a downward spiral for a number of months, now. Did I get an expression of unconditional love from the woman I married over 20 years ago? No. All I got were hollow words that our family would not be better off without me living in the house. I'm devastated and completely at my wits end as to where to go from here. Her reaction is all the more shocking because I've always thought of her as the most loving person on earth; someone whose concerns for others always outweighed her own. And, then, when I'm at my lowest what happens? Frostbite. Yeah, you could have seen your breath in my house this morning. Clearly, I am angry. I'm also terribly confused as to what to do now.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Corsair
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:34 am

That's really hard. I was thinking of a lot of "D" words that I hoped you were talking about. This included ordering Dessert, visiting the Dentist, and possibly voting Democrat. But divorce is automatically one of the worst topics. I think we need commiseration over drinks. What days are you available?

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Not Buying It
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:37 am

I am very, very sorry to hear about the problems you are having. I know it doesn't help much, but remember this isn't your fault. All the Church had to do was be what it claims to be, and most of us in that situation wouldn't be in it. You aren't the one disappointing your wife - the Church is, she just doesn't see it.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Red Ryder
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:45 am

Unfortunately you're not alone. I've had the same conversations with my wife at 2:00 am only to be so exhausted and so overwhelmed that you can't make any progress forward. You agree to disagree.

The resentment seeps in so deep you become less and less emotionally intimate and you enter into the angry phase.

At some point you accept divorce as a legitimate option and you become ok with it. At this point you decide to move forward. The direction is up to you both.

Let me know if you need the name of a good therapist or two. I have both LDS and non LDS with focus on faith crisis, marital issues, and family therapy.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:04 pm

Corsair wrote:That's really hard. I was thinking of a lot of "D" words that I hoped you were talking about. This included ordering Dessert, visiting the Dentist, and possibly voting Democrat. But divorce is automatically one of the worst topics. I think we need commiseration over drinks. What days are you available?
I have flexibility this afternoon and tomorrow.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:04 pm

Red Ryder wrote:Unfortunately you're not alone. I've had the same conversations with my wife at 2:00 am only to be so exhausted and so overwhelmed that you can't make any progress forward. You agree to disagree.

The resentment seeps in so deep you become less and less emotionally intimate and you enter into the angry phase.

At some point you accept divorce as a legitimate option and you become ok with it. At this point you decide to move forward. The direction is up to you both.

Let me know if you need the name of a good therapist or two. I have both LDS and non LDS with focus on faith crisis, marital issues, and family therapy.
Please PM me the names. We're in a crisis at this point.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Corsair
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:34 pm

Stig wrote:
Corsair wrote:That's really hard. I was thinking of a lot of "D" words that I hoped you were talking about. This included ordering Dessert, visiting the Dentist, and possibly voting Democrat. But divorce is automatically one of the worst topics. I think we need commiseration over drinks. What days are you available?
I have flexibility this afternoon and tomorrow.
Let's have lunch tomorrow (Oct 26). What are the major cross streets of your office or can you recommend some place?

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Shawn
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Shawn » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:14 pm

Hey, Stig. Is your first name "The"?

I wonder if your wife's concerns might have something to do with some of your behaviors. Do you still catch fish with your tongue and roam around the woods at night foraging for wolves? Or maybe she's tired of your breath smelling of magnesium and the fact that the outline of your left nipple is exactly the same shape as the Nurburgring. Also, I suppose it's very difficult to communicate with you since your voice can only be heard by cats.

Seriously, I'm sorry about your situation. It totally sucks.
Stig wrote:I just know what her expectations were when we got married and I know I can't fulfill the spiritual, and most important to her, elements of what she wants out of life.
Bummer. I bet she wants a "worthy priesthood holder" in the home. Right?

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:29 pm

Corsair wrote:
Stig wrote:
Corsair wrote:That's really hard. I was thinking of a lot of "D" words that I hoped you were talking about. This included ordering Dessert, visiting the Dentist, and possibly voting Democrat. But divorce is automatically one of the worst topics. I think we need commiseration over drinks. What days are you available?
I have flexibility this afternoon and tomorrow.
Let's have lunch tomorrow (Oct 26). What are the major cross streets of your office or can you recommend some place?
I have a 2PM meeting in Mesa, tomorrow. So, I could come that way, if it works better for you.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:33 pm

Shawn wrote:Hey, Stig. Is your first name "The"?

I wonder if your wife's concerns might have something to do with some of your behaviors. Do you still catch fish with your tongue and roam around the woods at night foraging for wolves? Or maybe she's tired of your breath smelling of magnesium and the fact that the outline of your left nipple is exactly the same shape as the Nurburgring. Also, I suppose it's very difficult to communicate with you since your voice can only be heard by cats.
Excellent "Some say..." references.
Shawn wrote: Seriously, I'm sorry about your situation. It totally sucks.
Stig wrote:I just know what her expectations were when we got married and I know I can't fulfill the spiritual, and most important to her, elements of what she wants out of life.
Bummer. I bet she wants a "worthy priesthood holder" in the home. Right?
She's not said that, but I know it's what she wants. Here I am apologizing profusely for letting her down, and the best she can do is suggest we go see a therapist together. Really? Not even the smallest expression of unconditional love? The worst thing is this is totally unlike her. She's the kindest, most thoughtful person I've ever met; it's one of the reasons I fell for her 20+ years ago. Last night, I felt like her only concern was how she and kids would get by without me in the house.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Shawn
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Shawn » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:03 pm

Well, some "worthy priesthood holders" are total jerks. My wife told me that when she was looking for a husband, she wanted a "worthy priesthood holder" more than anything (of course, I feel lousy now). I reminded her that her dad is super awesome and he didn't give blessings and stuff when she was growing up.

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Corsair
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Stig wrote:I have a 2PM meeting in Mesa, tomorrow. So, I could come that way, if it works better for you.
Let's meet at Famous Dave's along Dobson Road just south of the 202 in the Mesa Riverview area. It's right by the Bass Pro Shop.

Date: Wednesday, October 26
Time: 12:00 noon
Location: 1011 N Dobson Rd, Mesa, AZ 85201

I'm always looking for another excuse to go to Famous Dave's.

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:45 pm

Corsair wrote:
Stig wrote:I have a 2PM meeting in Mesa, tomorrow. So, I could come that way, if it works better for you.
Let's meet at Famous Dave's along Dobson Road just south of the 202 in the Mesa Riverview area. It's right by the Bass Pro Shop.

Date: Wednesday, October 26
Time: 12:00 noon
Location: 1011 N Dobson Rd, Mesa, AZ 85201

I'm always looking for another excuse to go to Famous Dave's.
That works. Thanks.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Obadiah_Dogberry
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Obadiah_Dogberry » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:24 pm

Stig,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. So many of us feel your pain. I have nothing to offer that hasn't been said already, but know you have lots of NOM brothers and sisters here for you.
Obadiah

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Mahonri Moriancumer
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Mahonri Moriancumer » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:38 pm

Stig,

So sorry! I know what it felt like for me when the "D" word came up. I was shocked!

Everyone's situation is different, but we are still together. The right counselor (and bishop) can make a huge difference. Good luck to you, buddy. This totally sucks and I get it.

beetbox
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by beetbox » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:24 pm

Hey Stig, I don't have anything to offer but my sympathy. I hope things make a turn for the better. I'm happy chat anytime you need someone to commiserate with.

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trophywife26.2
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by trophywife26.2 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:42 am

It's a little unclear who brought up divorce from the OP. Did you bring it up as a way out for her? If so, her cold response may be from feeling rejection/shock. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive of your feelings just trying to piece together what you wrote. It reads as if maybe she brought it up.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope that you can find a therapist that helps you both.
Even if it's something disappointing, it's still better to know the truth. Because people can deal with disappointment. And once they've done that, they can feel that they have really grown. And that can be such a good feeling. -Fred Rogers

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:52 am

trophywife26.2 wrote:It's a little unclear who brought up divorce from the OP. Did you bring it up as a way out for her? If so, her cold response may be from feeling rejection/shock. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive of your feelings just trying to piece together what you wrote. It reads as if maybe she brought it up.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope that you can find a therapist that helps you both.
She didn't bring it up. I brought it up as the solution that might benefit her best; it was clearly presented in that context. Namely, that I was trying to find a way for her to be happy again, because I know I can't live up to her expectations at this point. I know I shocked her. It was her reaction, both immediate and over the next 24 hours or so, that surprised me.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:11 am

Communication is so tricky . . . I often write these scripts in my head and when the actual conversation doesn't follow the script (because the other person doesn't know what I'm trying to communicate or what I hope for from them as a response) it can be really distressing and confusing to both of us.

It sounds like you may have brought up divorce because you needed to hear her reassure you that she stills loves and values you and wants to be with you, . . . but isn't it possible that she didn't hear your desire for reassurance at all? That maybe what she heard was you expressing in a roundabout way your desire for an escape from the marriage? And that she was as gobsmacked by the topic coming up for the first time as you were that she didn't respond lovingly and vehemently against the idea of divorce? I don't know (wasn't there obviously) but I have a LOT of experience with hearing things DH never meant to communicate, as well as the reverse.

I have no way of knowing what she thought, but based on what you've shared it seems possible, and given what's at stake I would certainly revisit the conversation and try to make sure both of you know what the other meant to communicate.

I'm sorry for your distress and pain. It's a terribly difficult road sometimes.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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Stig
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Re: The "D" Word

Post by Stig » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:22 am

Fifi de la Vergne wrote:Communication is so tricky . . . I often write these scripts in my head and when the actual conversation doesn't follow the script (because the other person doesn't know what I'm trying to communicate or what I hope for from them as a response) it can be really distressing and confusing to both of us.

It sounds like you may have brought up divorce because you needed to hear her reassure you that she stills loves and values you and wants to be with you, . . . but isn't it possible that she didn't hear your desire for reassurance at all? That maybe what she heard was you expressing in a roundabout way your desire for an escape from the marriage? And that she was as gobsmacked by the topic coming up for the first time as you were that she didn't respond lovingly and vehemently against the idea of divorce? I don't know (wasn't there obviously) but I have a LOT of experience with hearing things DH never meant to communicate, as well as the reverse.

I have no way of knowing what she thought, but based on what you've shared it seems possible, and given what's at stake I would certainly revisit the conversation and try to make sure both of you know what the other meant to communicate.

I'm sorry for your distress and pain. It's a terribly difficult road sometimes.
You could absolutely be correct. That's why I appreciate this board; it forces me to think beyond my immediate feelings based on the experience of people who have been through something similar.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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