Maybe A Bit Different Of A Question

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Mad Jax
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Maybe A Bit Different Of A Question

Post by Mad Jax » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:25 pm

I don't know if this really counts as belonging in this forum, but every woman I have dated since leaving the church has had some faith of some kind and even though I have no spiritual belief of my own I still try and help them if they struggle, because I know how painful it is to lose one's faith. The problem is that I seem to be drawing them toward atheism without trying. I wonder if this is something subconscious I'm doing, because I absolutely don't need anyone to share what I believe and want them to be happy with whatever they do believe, and don't want to be "that guy" who talks them out of it. Am I giving myself too much credit? This has only happened a few times so maybe they were just ready to give up anyway? Wondering.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Newme
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Re: Maybe A Bit Different Of A Question

Post by Newme » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:34 pm

Maybe you had influence, if they respected your reasoning.

But in the big picture, I think Fowler's stage 4 is the most common step after a faith crisis.

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Give It Time
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Re: Maybe A Bit Different Of A Question

Post by Give It Time » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:16 am

I contemplated answering this question without the anecdote, but decided the anecdote increased the understanding of it.

I was preparing for a meeting with my Bishop where I would be discussing paying for my son's mission. I knew the question of his father providing financing was likely to be broached. So, I wrote to his father and asked him if he was planning on helping to pay for our son's mission in any way. He wrote back and in his response he went all crazy town on me. He accused me of only caring about money, etc, etc. An email exchange ensued for quite awhile. My gist is he had stated many financial plans for our children's future when we were married, but many of those plans had changed since our divorce. I did a quick search of our old emails on the word "mission" and came up empty. I didn't want to assume he wouldn't help when he might have intended and shut him out. I was simply asking the question, because I needed to be operating on facts, rather than assumptions.

Apparently, he did his own search on that word and could see I was right. He conceded in that way abusers do where they don't lose power. I concluded by telling him that he frequently complained that I didn't communicate with him during our marriage and this exchange was a perfect example of why. I would go to him with a simple question or request and he would fly off the handle at me.

Then, I told him that since he was in a new relationship with someone else to please not do this to her.

I related this to my therapist. She was on board with the whole thing until the part about requesting my ex not abuse his new romantic interest.

First, it's telling my ex how to live his life (that was my own statement) and...

here's the one line for the reason for this whole anecdote:

You must trust her to have the emotional maturity to work things out for herself and make her own decisions.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

Galileo
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Re: Maybe A Bit Different Of A Question

Post by Galileo » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:43 pm

Mad Jax wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:25 pm
I don't know if this really counts as belonging in this forum, but every woman I have dated since leaving the church has had some faith of some kind and even though I have no spiritual belief of my own I still try and help them if they struggle, because I know how painful it is to lose one's faith. The problem is that I seem to be drawing them toward atheism without trying.
My fiancé is Catholic but doesn't really practice at all. Not even sure how much she believes. But she new from the get-go that I was formerly Mormon and am now atheist.

I often talk about religion and how stupid some people are when they do things in the name of god, hate others, act like bigots, etc. I often bring up things in the Bible and point out how ridiculous it is. I don't think she has ever thought about these things, and she says, "Yeah - that's true. That does sound crazy." Or she'll say, "I didn't know that was in the Bible. That's ridiculous."

I actually feel bad most of the time when I say things like this, because I don't want to belittle any faith that she has. But, in my opinion, atheism just makes sense! So if the logic is explained well enough, it's hard for someone not to agree with you!

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Mad Jax
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Re: Maybe A Bit Different Of A Question

Post by Mad Jax » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:20 pm

Galileo wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:43 pm
I actually feel bad most of the time when I say things like this, because I don't want to belittle any faith that she has. But, in my opinion, atheism just makes sense! So if the logic is explained well enough, it's hard for someone not to agree with you!
I find myself trying not to be that way as well... but it is a struggle when trying to explain the impossible logistics of something like the Great Flood story, or the absurdity of the Eden myth (especially if it is an unintended fall) when taken literally instead of symbolically. I believe in the idea of loving one another and not using condescension since it is an abusive way to speak to someone, but I have to be careful with my language and it's an easy slip for me. It's why I attempt to avoid the subject, but it comes up often enough, and I get to the point where I just feel the need to defend myself.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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