Stake meeting

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Enoch Witty
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Stake meeting

Post by Enoch Witty » Wed May 10, 2017 12:08 pm

My wife and I are being summoned by a member of the stake presidency. Although it could be a joint calling, we imagine it is because my wife is getting a calling, since she is a good Mormon and I haven't been around for months (although they could be giving me a calling in an attempt to reactivate me, I suppose). They tend to invite spouses to these appointments so that they can ensure the spouse will be supportive.

Here's the thing. My wife is welcome to live her religion and all that jazz, but I'm not supportive of her getting even a minorly time-consuming calling. She is a working mother who is constantly stressed over everything and who has a husband who is at best indifferent towards her church and on his worst days is quite angry at it. It would not be good for our home dynamic or my feelings toward her church for her to be taken away from her many responsibilities and family time for some useless administrative task that serves no real purpose. You know, 99% of church callings.

I have no intention of accepting anything myself, but it's not my style to lay down an ultimatum for my wife on what she can and can't do do. However, I don't see how it will do me even a modicum of good to give any church leader even an inkling of my disaffection. This would be easy if they were calling me in alone (I'd just ignore it or decline without details if they managed to corner me), but they are not; they are calling both of us in. I told my wife I had no intention of going to any meeting with the SP.

She told them she could meet but that she was unsure about my availability, and they wrote back and asked if there was a time we were both available. We kind of left it hanging last night, and I'm not sure what to do. I want to support my wife, but I already have enough resentment toward the church and it would not take much at all to ramp that up to eleven. Thoughts?

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Red Ryder
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Red Ryder » Wed May 10, 2017 12:22 pm

Sometimes it's best to go along to get along and be supportive. Like a bookend, jock strap, or push up bra. Or even a timely revelation from Joseph Smith to support his shenanigans!

Support can be a simple "yes, I support her in any calling. She'll be great at it."

If you want to send a "leave me alone" signal then don't wear a white shirt or tie. :shock:
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Enoch Witty
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Enoch Witty » Wed May 10, 2017 12:24 pm

I haven't worn a white shirt and tie in half a decade. I would definitely go in gym shorts and a t-shirt if I were to go. I'm not convinced I can say I support her in a calling. I already have to deal with her being stressed out all the time, and it's not pleasant. She may not consciously agree, but me getting her out of a calling would be a huge favor.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Red Ryder » Wed May 10, 2017 12:27 pm

Enoch Witty wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 12:24 pm
I haven't worn a white shirt and tie in half a decade. I would definitely go in gym shorts and a t-shirt if I were to go. I'm not convinced I can say I support her in a calling. I already have to deal with her being stressed out all the time, and it's not pleasant. She may not consciously agree, but me getting her out of a calling would be a huge favor.
Voicing your concerns is fair game. I got my wife out of a calling by don't that once. Go in and give them every reason not to call her after you hear what they have in mind.
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“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Korihor
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Korihor » Wed May 10, 2017 1:56 pm

I suppose another option is to say there isn't a good time for the both of you to attend together. Mrs Witty can go be herself and decide yes or no, or she can thank them for the meeting and tell them she'll think about it and get back with them.

Mrs Witty is her own person and can make her own choices. Letting a woman speak for herself is sometimes harder for the church to comprehend.
However, generally speaking, I think it is the proper course to invite both spouses to offer their opinions/preferences/acceptance on things such as callings.

Tough call. If she goes without you, odds are she'll accept. If you go, you're damned if you speak up and damned if you don't.
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oliblish
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by oliblish » Wed May 10, 2017 3:59 pm

The same thing happened to me several months ago. My wife and I were called in to see the SP. I assumed that my wife would be getting a calling. When we got there the SP called me to be an assistant ward clerk. I was totally blindsided and didn't know what to say. I have not been very active for a while but my wife is. The SP was taken aback when I said I wouldn't be accepting the calling. I think he assumed that I was not worthy and needed to repent of something major. I was kind of expecting to get a call from my bishop but it never came.

The previous time a calling was extended to me I was planning on turning it down but because I was taken by surprise I caved and accepted it. It was a very minor calling and actually worked out for me quite well when I still went to Sacrament Meeting most weeks.

So my advice is to be ready for anything.
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AllieOop
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by AllieOop » Wed May 10, 2017 7:49 pm

Enoch Witty wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 12:08 pm
She told them she could meet but that she was unsure about my availability, and they wrote back and asked if there was a time we were both available.
It sounds like your wife is willing to meet with them alone. And, you've been honest with her regarding not knowing if you can go and stay silent. If I were in your wife's position, and I felt like I needed to say "yes" to meeting, then I'd rather go by myself than stress over what might happen if you go. But, that's me....I don't know if your wife feels the same way.

I like Korihor's statement that your wife can make her own choices. But, I also know the pressure active members have on them to always say "yes" to any calling. Ugh! You're both in tough situations here and the dynamics of the church just make it worse.

How openly can you discuss this with your wife? Does she know how you feel or have you talked about the already high stress level in your lives right now? Maybe make it about "we" don't need more piled on "us" right now rather than "you" can't take on any more right now.

Bottom line is that you both just need to be honest about this and make your own decisions. Don't go to the interview if you don't want to (she can just reply that there is no time that you're both available right now to meet and let them deal with that and reply). And, if she wants to go, she should go.

Maybe ask her to at least not say "yes" on the spot if they issue her a calling, but ask if she'll say that she needs some time to think about it and discuss it with you. Then honestly discuss it with her. She should ultimately make the decision to accept it or not though, IMO, after you talk.

Good Luck...sorry you're dealing with this! Please let us know how it goes.
"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Mormorrisey » Wed May 10, 2017 8:14 pm

My stake has done the old Brother M runaround, and the last two callings Sister M has received came when I wasn't there. I don't know if they're afraid of my response, or just don't care. Again, just too apathetic to even care at this point, and I know the stake and ward can't get ANYBODY to do ANYTHING, so at least they know Sister M isn't likely to say no. I'm sure that's why they don't want me there to gum up the works.

In any event, I try to not be too snarky when she goes out to do stupid church things, and that's about as supportive as I'm willing to be at this point.
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Enoch Witty
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Enoch Witty » Thu May 11, 2017 6:52 am

Thanks all for your comments. I have an update.

We hadn't had a chance to revisit this yet, and last night I was talking on the phone, my wife quickly came in the room, slipped out the door, and mouthed "going to meet with the stake presidency." So I guess I was absolved. (I was more or less willing to go with her if she really wanted me to, but I will admit to not exactly being disappointed that she went on her own. She's an independent woman; she certainly didn't need me there.)

About 45 minutes later, I got a call from her. She says, "Hi, President X would like to speak to you."

X: "Hey Enoch, got the dishes done?"

Me: "They're done!" (I was totally lying; I had been out running other errands. But I did indeed do the dishes later that evening, as I usually do.)

X: "So hey, we wanted to let you know that we've issued a calling to your wife to be the Stake Relief Society Secretary. How do you feel about that?"

Me: (a beat) "Well, I admit I'm a little concerned about her stress levels. She has a lot going on."

X: "No, no, this isn't a stressful calling."

Me: "I'm saying she's already stressed. And I'm the one who has to live with her!"

X: "I've explained to her that her family comes first, then her church calling; actually, it probably goes family first, then employment, then church calling. We don't want this taking her away from her other commitments. ... So, do you sustain this calling?" [Note: the first part of this I really appreciate; it's nice to have him acknowledge that other things are more important. But asking me if I "sustain" a calling was mildly triggering, hahaha]

Me: (a beat) "Sure."

X: "Okay, then we're going to move forward and issue the calling."

Me: "Okay. I appreciate you checking with me."

So that was it. On one hand, it is nice of them to ensure that I'm okay with it before moving forward, even though I chose not to attend. On the other hand, my wife doesn't feel like she can say no to the church, and I choose not to exercise my priesthood authority over her ( ;) ), so it's not like either one of us was really given a choice.

In any case, she followed up with a few texts that hinted at some insecurity, so I sent her a reassuring text saying I supported her, loved her, and was sorry I didn't go. It turned out alright all around: I didn't have to waste an hour-plus driving to, waiting for, and attending an uncomfortable meeting, my wife gets to live her religion, and the SP alarm bells are probably minor compared to the code red that likely would have occurred if I had submitted myself to a sit-down conversation.

And for what it's worth, my wife reports that her previous ward calling was about to start requiring one night per week from her, and the stake calling will only require one meeting per month, so it actually will save her some time. I was also proud that she mentioned that it could leave her in a position to be more closely involved with the stake's refugee efforts.

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AllieOop
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by AllieOop » Thu May 11, 2017 9:06 am

Enoch Witty wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 6:52 am
X: "No, no, this isn't a stressful calling."
Ha! That's what they always say :lol:

I've had that calling and it was quite high stress (not as bad as some of the ward leadership callings I had though). This was years ago, so maybe it's changed to being less stressful. But, there were quite a few meetings involved (the president I served with considered me to be a part of the presidency...literally...so I was expected to go to all meetings they were to attend).

When ward conferences rolled around each year, I was expected to visit other wards with the other members of the presidency. This made it difficult to attend my own ward with my family and I really did not like that.

It was also very busy during stake conference time with extra meetings, etc.

There is a lot she will be able to do over the phone, though (collecting data and monthly attendance records from each ward and so on).

A lot will depend on the president she is serving with. Maybe she won't be as demanding as mine was (mine delegated a lot of what she could have done to me) and maybe she won't expect her to attend all of the extra meetings too.

I like your attitude and I'm sure your wife is grateful to feel your support. It's a tough position for you to be in and you handled it well!
"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

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Silver Girl
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Silver Girl » Sun May 14, 2017 6:50 am

Thanks for the update!

Please let us know how that goes for her, and for you. I have had that exact calling, and a few friends of mine had it as well. One friend said, "You'll be very busy!" In my case, due to the nut-job who was the stake RS president, it was miserable - at least 20 or more hours a week and constantly dealing with a neurotic RS pres over us.

If you live in an area where there's a state every few blocks, it won't be too bad. Outside of the Moridor, wards can be miles and miles apart. We had to travel to each ward conference, which was interesting, because we got to meet people in other towns, but the trips were long and took us away from our households for several hours each time. We also were asked to visit each ward RS at least once a quarter (not sure if that's the case now). Same thing. Meeting people we would not otherwise know, but traveling a LOT.

One of the most hectic things was keeping track of the roster of ward RS presidencies. Rarely did a ward inform us they'd made a change, so the secretary (by the way, I effing HATE clerical work), has to track down the information and keep it updated. Our ward RS presidencies changed quite a bit, partly, I believe, because Sister Nut Job drove people crazy and they asked to be released.

Again, the group I was in was likely unique (I sure hope so, otherwise, I can tell you first hand why the use of antidepressants is high in the church). Sister Nut Job was a micromanager and was also in LOVE with the idea of having a secretary - she treated me like crap, and was verbally abusive to all of us. If I had ever treated one of my staff members that way during my career, I'd have been hauled into the HR office. Nobody would speak up, though, because everyone was afraid their DHs would not be considered for "promotions" in the church - which is a good sign that TSCC is not a church to begin with.

We spent about three months in our meetings discussing the color of paper napkins to use for the annual Stake Women's Conference. Yes, really. It had to do with planning the budget down to the penny, and colored napkins were a tiny bit more than white napkins.

In contrast to my experience, a friend of mine was the Stake RS President in another area (clear across the country, in an entirely different city and state) and I could tell she managed it completely differently and was very professional with her entire team. I think I'd have enjoyed being part of that group; it would have been fun in many ways, and I'd have felt useful rather than used.

By the time Sister Nut Job was released, she had gone through at least three full sets of counselors and secretaries. Everyone hated her and people continue to avoid her now. When they announced in stake conference that she was released, you should have seen the series of texts flying around the stake! People who had never even served with her knew of the issues & were texting that she was finally gone!

I hope your DW's new calling is good for her, and that she enjoys it. I hope it doesn't take her away from you and the family too much, and if it does, I truly hope you'll both decide to address that with the SP. I've noticed that most male leaders (bishops, or SPs) actually have no idea of how demanding or non-demanding women's callings are. They often say something is not time-consuming or stressful because in their heads it sounds easy. But that is not always the case.
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Enoch Witty
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Enoch Witty » Mon May 15, 2017 9:30 am

Thanks for your perspectives, Silver Girl and AllieOop.

We don't know the RSP very well, but she is married to a dear friend of ours who is genuinely one of the kindest and most giving people I have ever met. So hopefully that bodes well. She does, however, drive a Lexus, which always makes me wonder what kind of message people are trying to send. (She is in business, however, so perhaps the message is meant to be sent to clients rather than peers.) ((It just struck me that it also bodes well that the RSP is a career woman like my wife; there will hopefully be some empathy there.))

Unfortunately, my wife is going to have to travel to different wards, some up to an hour away. I haven't been attending church for the last eight or nine months, however, so I was already losing her for three hours every Sunday. Now sometimes it will be four or five, but otherwise that aspect will be largely the same. Hopefully my wife can carpool in the aforementioned Lexus to enjoy a little luxury. :)

My guess is that the biggest change will be that she will likely not want to take our toddler to church on the days she goes a'visitin'. This means he'll stay home with me. While I have been treasuring this alone time every Sunday to clean the house and/or relax, some father-son time is going to be great.

We'll see how it goes. I'm sure it will be fine. My prediction is that I will be annoyed whenever it takes her away from our family time, but that if we have legitimate alternate plans other than just hanging around the house, she'll skip the church engagement (almost) every time. Here's hoping I'm right!

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nibbler
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by nibbler » Sat May 27, 2017 9:51 am

Enoch Witty wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 6:52 am
X: "So hey, we wanted to let you know that we've issued a calling to your wife to be the Stake Relief Society Secretary. How do you feel about that?"

Me: (a beat) "Well, I admit I'm a little concerned about her stress levels. She has a lot going on."

X: "No, no, this isn't a stressful calling."

Me: "I'm saying she's already stressed. And I'm the one who has to live with her!"

X: "I've explained to her that her family comes first, then her church calling; actually, it probably goes family first, then employment, then church calling. We don't want this taking her away from her other commitments. ... So, do you sustain this calling?" [Note: the first part of this I really appreciate; it's nice to have him acknowledge that other things are more important. But asking me if I "sustain" a calling was mildly triggering, hahaha]
I feel like I'm bringing an unhealthy dose of cynicism here but my experiences color my perceptions.

In the last several interactions I've had with local leaders I felt like they'd say anything to get someone to accept a calling. Once you've accepted you're committed and far more likely to go along.

Local leaders also experience stress and pressure, they have a church job too and a part of that job is to staff open positions. It's a thankless job, I wouldn't want it, but I think the pressures of doing that job has opened the process to the phenomenon where extending a calling is less about taking the circumstances of an individual into account and more about getting out from under the obligation of having lots of vacant slots to fill. In other words, subconsciously the SP leader might be more worried about finding someone to be the stake relief society presidency secretary than they are with whether someone can take on the added workload of being a stake relief society presidency secretary. Organizational needs tend to come first.

Your story reminded me of those feelings that I've had in the past.

Me: Concern 1.
X: Concern 1 is unjustified.
Me: Concern 2.
X: Don't you worry about blank, let me worry about blank.
etc.

Then when you get a month into the calling concern 1 starts up, a month after that concern 2 becomes a weekly issue... and there's no way out.

So yeah. Me and my cynicism. YRMV. It's just that when I look back on my life I really struggle to think, "Now that was a calling I really enjoyed!"
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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Enoch Witty
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Re: Stake meeting

Post by Enoch Witty » Wed May 31, 2017 9:59 am

nibbler wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 9:51 am

In the last several interactions I've had with local leaders I felt like they'd say anything to get someone to accept a calling. Once you've accepted you're committed and far more likely to go along.
Totally with you on this. Luckily, things so far seem reasonable. Wife opted out of the first branch visit an hour away due to some family being in town; didn't seem to be a problem. She's super stressed from work, so I doubt she's even given the calling much thought at this point. It's easy to get away with half-assing a calling: like you said, local leaders hate having to fill those slots, so they'd much rather just keep someone in there who's willing to do the job in a half-ass manner.

I also found out that the new SRSP stipulated in accepting the calling and choosing a presidency that there could be no Molly Mormons among the group. I take this as a good sign.

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