Korihor's letters to BP

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Korihor
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Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Korihor » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:24 pm

For anyone that's interested here are my letters to my local leadership
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

Korihor
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:37 am

Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Korihor » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:25 pm

Oct 2015

Bishop X,

Thanks again for meeting with me yesterday and our frank discussion. It was nice to be sincere with you about this.
Not to get caught in the minutia - but if its OK with you, I'll just talk with you on a first name basis. I still completely respect you as Bishop, but it is easier to talk with a friend.

I know I unloaded a mountain on your desk yesterday. I was thinking about it most of the day afterwards. Based on my conversation with my dad, I believed you were more familiar with the matters I was referring to. I suppose it must have came as a shock to hear this. I can only say that it all came as a shock to me as well to learn about it. It was never my intention to mislead you or anyone else about my status. As mentioned, the majority of this has developed in the past 6 months, and seems to get worse as time goes on.

I suppose the only thing I can say is, what could possibly have shaken me and so many others that are firm, faithful members? I was never looking leave or find fault. I genuinely was looking for answers, only to discover the answers would never come and the questions only get harder.

As mentioned, the church has published 13 (so far) essays regarding some challenging aspects of church history and doctrine. I suggest you start here.
These are not too easy to find on the church website. I think that is somewhat intentional. This is not something the church would want to flaunt, but I give the church credit for publishing it after decades of members begging for something to address these concerns. I still have many concerns regarding the essays and the information, but it is a good starting place.

Gospel Topics Essays
Officials of the Church began in 2013 to publish straightforward, in-depth essays on a number of topics.

Also, here is is a link to a video I recommend. NOTE, I think this is one of the best summaries of this subject. The video is now about 4 years old, so some stats are dated, but it is relevant nonetheless. Also, the Author (John Dehlin) was excommunicated earlier this year, but was in full faith and good standing when he published it. I don't "follow" John Dehlin as some type of leader, but he is a good resource on this matter. He has done much research in this area of why faithful members lose their testimony. I don't think anything in the video is "anti-mormon" and John is not an "anti-mormon" to this day.

Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church

Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons...
View on www.youtube.com

I would be happy to discuss this matter further with you (or anyone for that matter). Thanks so much for talking with me and listening. I have heard of many others who have shared these concerns with family and church leaders only to be summarily dismissed, insulted, accused and ostracized. Thank you for your sincerity an openness.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

Korihor
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:37 am

Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Korihor » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:31 pm

[First name of BP],

Thank you for talking with me last night. It was great to catch up with you about the past few months. I am copying [EQP] in this email as well, as he and I briefly talked about this subject. Additionally, I am copying my wife, [BP1C, BP2C]. I wish to be very open in my conversations regarding this matter.

First, I would like to briefly explain my current position regarding my "testimony". As mentioned previously in our meeting last Fall, my testimony of the truth claims of the Church have been obliterated. In fact, I am more resolute in my position than before. This has been a very arduous year for my wife and I. Our experience in this ward is not at all what we could have possibly imagined nor desired. I would simply reiterate that we were some of the most faithful members in the church. Born and raised in the covenant, return missionary, sealed in the temple and served in numerous callings. I am not boasting but merely reminding you that I have not changed my beliefs for any lack of devotion. I have spent countless hours reading, studying and searching in official and respected sources. Trying to find an answer to valid questions and information that contradicted everything I understood about the Church.

During this past year, it has been excruciating at times to attend church. Many things taught and said in Sacrament Meeting, Sunday School and EQ are in direct contradiction of doctrine, actual historical record and sometimes common sense. That being said, I believe in "big tent Mormonism" where all can come to freely discuss our individual beliefs, experiences and religion. I have learned that some things affect each individual differently and I hope it is possible, within the church as a whole, to welcome a variety of thoughts, opinions and circumstances to be discussed by all participants. Unfortunately, the current climate of the church culture is a "one size fits all" curriculum that has been diluted to a juvenile teaching material comprised of the same stories, year after year.

Please understand, I am not referencing my comments to any individual. The local ward members are wonderful and I love all of them. My comments are directed to the institutional church as a whole. We have been given milk and the promised meat has never been delivered. The lesson manuals are the same regurgitated information. The church leaders deliver talks that reference other talks.

So here is my proposal; I respectfully request the opportunity to occasionally teach a lesson in EQ in order to share information that is new and fresh in church publications. This information has been incalculably important in my journey this past year. This information is commonly referred to as the Gospel Topics Essays.

The essays can be found here: https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng

Let me address one obvious question: "Why would someone who doesn't believe in the church want to teach a lesson in church?". Since I am going to be attending church for the foreseeable future, I might as well make the best of it. In short, I hope to be the change I want to see in the church.
It is obvious the vast majority of attending church members have no idea about the information I am talking about when I say I had a "faith crisis". The children of faithful church members are going to find this information. When these kids confront their parents, the parents are usually clueless. I would hope to teach others so they can help someone who is walking down the path I have traveled. Ideally, the path would not be as rugged and lonely as it was for me.
Next question "Why should we trust you to not teach information that could cause others to doubt?" Well... That is going to require a level of trust. I promise not to teach anything that is false, unverified or contrary to official church statements and publications. I will only teach from official church sources. In fact, my goal is not to provide any personal opinion, but merely present the official information and talk about it candidly. I plead with you that if I am mistaken in any of my statements to please correct me. I am still desperately seeking answers.

Please consider this proposal and discuss in your meetings whether or not I could be an asset to this ward to share information from my journey and provide accurate and official information to others before they experience a faith crisis.

Best regards,

Bro. Korihor

…regardless of your circumstances, your personal history, or the strength of your testimony, there is room for you in this Church.”
— President Dieter Uchtdorf

“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.”
– President J. Reuben Clark

In this Church there is an enormous amount of room—and scriptural commandment—for studying and learning, for comparing and considering, for discussion and awaiting further revelation. We all learn ‘line upon line, precept upon precept,’ with the goal being authentic religious faith informing genuine Christlike living.”
– Jeffrey R. Holland, “A Prayer for the Children,” Ensign, May 2003


Recently, in February 2016, Elder Ballard made the follow statement regarding this information:

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... g=eng&_r=1

"Church leaders today are fully conscious of the unlimited access to information, and we are making extraordinary efforts to provide accurate context and understanding of the teachings of the Restoration. A prime example of this effort is the 11 Gospel Topics essays on LDS.org that provide balanced and reliable interpretations of the facts for controversial and unfamiliar Church-related subjects. It is important that you know the content in these essays like you know the back of your hand. If you have questions about them, then please ask someone who has studied them and understands them. In other words, “seek learning, even by study and also by faith” as you master the content of these essays. You should also become familiar with the Joseph Smith Papers website and the Church history section on LDS.org and other resources by faithful LDS scholars. The effort for gospel transparency and spiritual inoculation through a thoughtful study of doctrine and history, coupled with a burning testimony, is the best antidote we have to help students avoid and/or deal with questions, doubt, or faith crises they may face in this information age."
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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Deepthinker
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Deepthinker » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:03 pm

These are great, Korihor. If our bishop ever finds out about my change in beliefs (DW threatens to tell him every now and then), I think it would be great to use something like this.

I can't remember how your bishop responded. You didn't end up getting to teach Elders, but what was his general reaction to them?

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Batman
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Batman » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:18 am

Thanks for sharing these! I like how you did not get bogged down in details, but clearly explained how your unbelief came about. I will keep these for future reference.

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AllieOop
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Location: Where the sand meets the Sea...

Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by AllieOop » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:52 am

Wow....impressive. I wish I'd had the guts to write letters like that to my Bishop at the time I was still attending.

I haven't followed all your posts, but how did the Bishop respond to both letters? Did he read the info you referenced or did he watch any of the videos you recommended in your first letter? Have they agreed to allow you to teach?

I think there is a great deal of fear involved. Fear to do any research on their own and fear that other members in the ward will learn what you now know. So, I'm very interested to hear the responses you received.
"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

Korihor
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Korihor » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:53 pm

I've never had a response from the bishop, it's just been radio silence. I text the bishop to make sure he even received it, which he acknowledged he did. But no one has responded. I believe the BP might have glanced at one or two essays, but that's about it. I never taught the class.

They just leave me alone, except for the occasional "Hello" in the hallway.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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Hagoth
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Hagoth » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:45 pm

Korihor wrote:I've never had a response from the bishop, it's just been radio silence. I text the bishop to make sure he even received it, which he acknowledged he did. But no one has responded. I believe the BP might have glanced at one or two essays, but that's about it. I never taught the class.

They just leave me alone, except for the occasional "Hello" in the hallway.
When I have asked local leaders it they have read the essays I have always been told that they know about them and that they know they should probably read them. I think the general attitude they have is that the essays -assuming they know about them at all - are for people struggling with weak testimonies, so why open a can of worms when you believe your testimony is strong.

But I think this is a good general direction to take. If you ask them to read the essays as a starting point to discuss your issues it moves the ball into their court and they know they may have to deal with considering things that they might not otherwise consider.

My experience so far is that if someone presses you for a reason and you give them one they will assume they have to just get you to feel ok about that one item, or put it back on your shelf, and you'll be right back in the club. They cannot comprehend the depth of the rabbit hole.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by moksha » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:59 am

No response from the Bishop might be his own way of looking out for you, as opposed to the old method of kicking it up the line so you could eventually be burnt at the Stake level. Being a ravening wolf in Mr. Mac Suit Emporium clothing is not for the kind hearted, even if they are a bishop.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by Hagoth » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:59 am

moksha wrote:... burnt at the Stake level.
:lol: :lol:
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: Korihor's letters to BP

Post by MalcolmVillager » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:28 pm

Marking for future reference.

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