Recommended order of study?

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Thoughtful
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Recommended order of study?

Post by Thoughtful » Sun May 21, 2017 5:05 pm

Spouseman has agreed to study the essays, and anything on LDS.org OR cited by LDS.org to try to get a shared perspective.

Where do I start? I'd like his eyes to be opened, but gently.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon May 22, 2017 7:47 am

Essays, essays, and essays. The only challenge is, one needs to actually STUDY them, look at the footnotes, and try to identify spin. My own experience? Everyone I've suggested to read the essays to better understand my point of view hasn't actually read them when I've questioned them on the material; except for one individual, who was troubled by the Fanny Alger story but then just put it up on the shelf. But generally, I've found most people just skim them, IF they know about them, and won't really read them to gain some kind of understanding. So it might be a good thing to go over it together. Sister M has "read" some of them, but won't really discuss them. It's a challenge.

But on the other hand, the essays are on the lds.org site, so at least it's "official," and shouldn't scare away any TBM. So they are beneficial in that sense. I wish you luck, my hope is that your spouse will read them with the goal of understanding you. That's a good journey.

But then, I really didn't answer your question about which essay to start with, did I? They're all so much fun. Race and priesthood is a fun one to start with, if you couple it with some of the statements of doctrine from the 1940s, like this one from FairMormon. You can tell hubby that Fair Mormon is part of the Maxwell Institute at BYU, so it has SOME church sanction:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Morm ... Statements

The one I would avoid off the hopper is DNA and the BOM, it's a tough slog jargon-wise, and might put him off further study. Hope that helps!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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oliblish
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by oliblish » Mon May 22, 2017 9:09 am

The book In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton was cited by the polygamy essay in the footnotes. So maybe that is fair game?
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

Thoughtful
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by Thoughtful » Tue May 23, 2017 1:01 pm

oliblish wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 9:09 am
The book In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton was cited by the polygamy essay in the footnotes. So maybe that is fair game?
Yes, the deal is if it's cited in LDS.org, we can use it. I'm thinking Fawn Brodie is also cited somewhere.

The essays take a lot out of context. I'm going to insist we check the references, I want him to see how things have been deliberately spun and in some cases outright mislead.

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Hagoth
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by Hagoth » Thu May 25, 2017 8:40 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 1:01 pm
Yes, the deal is if it's cited in LDS.org, we can use it. I'm thinking Fawn Brodie is also cited somewhere.
Yes, Brodie is cited in the essays. So Is Todd Compton's In Sacred Loneliness
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by Hagoth » Thu May 25, 2017 8:55 am

Here's something to think about when you read the essays. Consider whether or not they really give an authoritative, or even reasonable answer. You will find that most are choose-your-own-adventure stories; they throw out a lot of "perhaps," and "it could be" kinds of answers with the hope that one of them will work for you but in the end they offer no resolutions to the problems. I think this is very important for any discussion that goes along with reading them. Example: was there a 40-foot missing Book of Abraham scroll? Is the BoA actually on the existing papyri but it has become unrecognizable to us by centuries of copying? Did the Joseph Smith papyri merely serve as a catalyst for a revelation? All of these answers are given in the essay, and each has serious problems, but no REAL answer is given. The Nauvoo Polygamy essay tries to say both the Joseph and other prophets were merely human products of their time, so we should cut them some slack, AND that Joseph was doing everything exactly as the Lord commanded.

Here are some detailed rebuttals to three of the essays (Nauvoo Polygamy, Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon DNA), if you're interested:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vd_ ... sp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Log ... sp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tz7 ... sp=sharing
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Thoughtful
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by Thoughtful » Thu May 25, 2017 12:46 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 8:55 am
Here's something to think about when you read the essays. Consider whether or not they really give an authoritative, or even reasonable answer. You will find that most are choose-your-own-adventure stories; they throw out a lot of "perhaps," and "it could be" kinds of answers with the hope that one of them will work for you but in the end they offer no resolutions to the problems. I think this is very important for any discussion that goes along with reading them. Example: was there a 40-foot missing Book of Abraham scroll? Is the BoA actually on the existing papyri but it has become unrecognizable to us by centuries of copying? Did the Joseph Smith papyri merely serve as a catalyst for a revelation? All of these answers are given in the essay, and each has serious problems, but no REAL answer is given. The Nauvoo Polygamy essay tries to say both the Joseph and other prophets were merely human products of their time, so we should cut them some slack, AND that Joseph was doing everything exactly as the Lord commanded.

Here are some detailed rebuttals to three of the essays (Nauvoo Polygamy, Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon DNA), if you're interested:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vd_ ... sp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Log ... sp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tz7 ... sp=sharing
Thanks!

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moksha
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Re: Recommended order of study?

Post by moksha » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:42 am

Do any of you have a preference for the unwritten order of study, the unspoken order of prayer, the well-proven order knowing and the unconscious way of being?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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