Gender Specific Issues

[LostGirl]

I am new here but have been lurking for a while. 7th generation, always done all the "right things". Have had just about every ward calling and stake callings including Ward RSP. Mentally I have been slowly leaving for about ten years, but have not been able to talk to anyone at all. I try to be authentic in my reactions to things that I disagree with but no-one knows the extent of my disaffection.

I was wondering whether you think there are significant differences in this process of having one foot in and one foot out for men and women? I have read a lot of your posts and an ongoing issue for men seems to be that of not being able to ordain your children and not being seen as "the priesthood holder" of the home any more, and your spouse possibly feeling let down in that regard.

For me a huge factor in the decision to stick around is the fact that my husband will not be able to hold the callings that he enjoys holding if his wife is inactive or less active - HC, Bishopric, Stake Presidency. We have been there before and he loves it and those opportunities would be denied him if I come out so to speak. There are many other factors including parents in frail health and a teenager who is so "in" that I fear that her world would fall apart if she learned right now that all is not as it seems. I also don't want my kids to become the ward project.

I regret not talking to my husband about my "small" concerns ten years ago. Now I am mentally out but stuck here trying to pretend that all is OK while figuring out whether I should talk to him about it or not and whether I will destroy his world when I do so. I know that it will have to come out eventually as I won't be serving a senior mission unless he can find me one where we are just doing real humanitarian work.

Another issue I have found as a woman is that I am not aware of any women who have been in my position and left in my area. (not counting converts who came and then stopped coming not long after). I don't know if there are actually less women that find themselves in this position than men, or if we are just less likely to try to speak up. I look around my ward and wonder - do you all really still believe all of this? Or are half of you just pretending like me? There is a man who lives not far from me that is out and his wife still attends. I would love to be able to talk to him but it's not like I can invite him to lunch for a chat. So I am finding it a very lonely existence as it probably is for many of you.

[trophywife26.2]

Hi lost girl! Welcome! I do think it is easier for women to be one foot in one foot out in many ways like less leadership opportunities and not participating in priesthood ordinances, but if you stop wearing garments or keeping your TR current it is more obvious too. Although, I just want to give a plug right now to cutting back garment wear to just when you have to wear them like to church or in public. Garments are horrendous. Tangent/threadjack over. I have one friend who has an active husband and she goes to the mall every Sunday during SS and RS while her kids and DH are at church (she goes to sacrament). People in the ward don't even know where she is or worry about her. They assume she's busy with the kids I guess.

You are not alone. There are other women like you. If you would like to find some like-minded women there are plenty of ways to find them, but you do have to take a little risk. I am in UT county and could help you with some resources if that's the area you are in.

As far as when or what or how to tell your husband that's going to be up to you and probably difficult, but no one can tell you what the right choice is. I just want to send you a hug and again say you are not alone. Please stick around.

[MoPag]

Hi LostGirl! I'm so glad you are here with us.

I look around my ward and wonder - do you all really still believe all of this? Or are half of you just pretending like me?

I laughed when I read this because I literally do this ALL the time.

To answer your post, I think the church's rabid obsession with gender roles creates the gender specific issues you mentioned. Aside from those issues we are all of us, human beings who just want to be loved by our families, accepted by our communities and true to our own unique spirituality.

I know it's a lonely journey sometimes. NOM has been a lifesaver for me. PM me if you ever want to chat.

[Red Ryder]

I think both genders get equally @&$!? when they leave the church and turn their celestial marriage into a mixed faith marriage.

Some genders are more noticeable depending on the circumstances (callings, social status, participation levels, etc.)

The tough part is when you have a spouse who aspires to bigger things like callings and senior missions. We are the dream (fantasy) killers!

Welcome to NOM.

[Corsair]

I had not given a lot of thought about the callings that a spouse could not have if they remained married to an apostate. This is complicated with the common custom of not advancing a divorced man into the office of a bishop even if they have subsequently remarried in the temple. My wife would like to look forward to a senior mission, but that's not going to happen with me either. Your challenges are more acute with a faithful husband wanting to serve as a leader.

I don't have a solution for you. At some level your husband values his relationship with the church over the relationship with you. While that is an admirable devotion to a higher cause, it's a distinct problem when you don't hold the LDS church with the same devotion.

I regret not talking to my husband about my "small" concerns ten years ago. Now I am mentally out but stuck here trying to pretend that all is OK while figuring out whether I should talk to him about it or not and whether I will destroy his world when I do so. I know that it will have to come out eventually as I won't be serving a senior mission unless he can find me one where we are just doing real humanitarian work.

My wife does not want to talk about the problems I see in the church at all. I'm not so sure that coming forward with the small problems at first would have worked. I think she is happiest when I don't bring up the issues. She enjoys talking politics with me and we had lots of spirited discussion over the past year about problems and benefits of each candidate. But pointing out issues with the LDS church is not welcome.

The restrictions on senior missionaries are not as intense as on the teenage elders and sisters. But forget going to any major life events of family for 18 months. I can't imagine regular phone or Skype contact will be encouraged and certainly taking a day off to go see a movie will be frowned upon. There will still be restrictions that are ridiculous and all expenses will be paid by you, of course.

I look around my ward and wonder - do you all really still believe all of this? Or are half of you just pretending like me? There is a man who lives not far from me that is out and his wife still attends. I would love to be able to talk to him but it's not like I can invite him to lunch for a chat. So I am finding it a very lonely existence as it probably is for many of you.

This is why I keep my eyes open during prayers so I can look around. I hope to spot the knowing look of another apostate some day.

[LostGirl]

Sometimes he makes comments that give me some hope that he might be starting to see the problems but then he goes and bears his testimony about Joseph Smith and all hope is dashed

After reading many of the stories on here and recommendations to take it slow I think I will try to introduce some of the things that concern me very slowly because the ultimate irony is that one of the things that really irks me is how JS snuck around behind Emma's back, and here I am hiding my true self from him.

[LostGirl]

You are not alone. There are other women like you. If you would like to find some like-minded women there are plenty of ways to find them, but you do have to take a little risk. I am in UT county and could help you with some resources if that's the area you are in.

Trophywife, thanks for the offer but I am not even in the USA, so our LDS population is not as dense as in UT, although it is still reasonably large.

[alas]

I don't think it is easier to be male or female and disaffected, just slightly different. Men seem much more tolerant of the slight heretic, while women will socially shun another woman who shows the slightest sign of unorthodox thinking or unorthoprax behavior. For example, men can ditch the uniform of white shirt, tie and clean shaven and still be called to the higher callings, although they may get reminders that they are "out of uniform," but let a woman show up in, say pants, and she is likely to find herself isolated and friendless. More men say they are in favor of ordination of women than women are, and I think that is the intense pressure to fall in line put on women. So women have to stay further under the radar socially than men do. Women also need those social contacts more, so women tend to feel alone and like the only one and that is a bit more painful than it is for men. Also, I have known several women in RS presidencies with inactive or nonmember husbands, but zero men in bishoprics with an inactive or nonmember wife, so the inequality for callings is a bit different.

But of course these are all generalizations and it depends partly where you live.

You can start now with introducing your DH to the issues. Just bring things up like questions instead of like problems. So, something like I really don't understand X, instead of I don't believe X. Then your DH will research to help you understand and begin to see the problem, rather than just getting defensive and angry.