I'm Tired

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Linked
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I'm Tired

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:25 pm

I'm tired of being mixed faith and not being able to work through leaving the faith of my youth on my terms. I'm tired of looking at my garments and dreaming of unceremoniously dumping them in the trash. I'm tired of being curious about adult beverages instead of having some in my house. I'm tired of worrying about my sons pending 8th birthday. I'm tired of seeing DW worked up because her parents want to watch our kids so we can attend a temple dedication but I'm recommendless and beyond uninterested. I'm tired of hearing stuff from the mormon perspective. I'm tired of keeping up appearances for some while being open with others; I'm especially tired of the times where I'm with people in both groups. I'm tired of the feelings of resentment I am developing for DW because of the actions I choose to take to keep the peace.

I need space from the church to defuse the bad feelings I am starting to feel towards DW, but if I take that space I worry I will lose DW to even worse feelings towards me.

I'm Tired.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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slavereeno
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by slavereeno » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:08 pm

I am sorry you are bearing this Linked, it can be exasperating.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by IT_Veteran » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:12 pm

Sorry you're suffering through this right now. Hope she eventually gives you the freedom to be open about it.

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Linked
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Linked » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:39 am

Thanks for the kind words. I think DW has it in her to accept me as I am someday, hopefully it comes soon.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Enoch Witty
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Enoch Witty » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:24 pm

Dude, this sucks. Internet hugs and positive vibrations, Linked.

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TestimonyLost
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by TestimonyLost » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:28 pm

I feel ya, brother. The tough days seem to get tougher after several years of building up on me. I'm sorry you're going through this.

I noticed you posted this thread on a Monday. I've come to the conclusion that Mondays on average are my toughest days coping with my faith/church/mixed faith marriage situation. I've decided it's some combination of hangover from church, the normal negative feelings associated with Monday, and a day of introspection after a couple days looking outward. If you're like me, your weekends are probably busy with people (family, friends, social gatherings, etc.) and activities. Then as I'm driving into work on Monday, I suddenly have a half hour of quiet to think and, well, some days that's not a good thing! And my job is very individual and repetitive at times so I often have a lot of hours during the day to continue thinking.

Unfortunately this awareness has not helped me come up with a strategy to counter it. I usually find that Tuesday is better though.

I don't know if this helps but it's something to consider. If you come up with a solution to it, let me know! ;)

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RubinHighlander
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:36 pm

Ug...the ugly slog of MFRs.

Do you have any outs for yourself? Like hiking or some other outdoor activity? I hated living two lives, but the only thing that kept me sane was having some mental freedom. Also, when not at home or church, I'd have a beer with friends and relax. Sometimes out in the garage on weekends as well. I had my outdoor photography to get me out to local spots in the mountains and just spend time by the lake watching the sunset.

Try to carve out some time for yourself out of the house, away from people and out in nature to keep you going.

If you are anywhere near SLC to Ogden I'd be happy to give you a hug and buy you a beer...or something stronger. Or we could go out to the lake and partake of some Colorado Kale. Find some solace my brother!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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Red Ryder
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:20 am

Are you moving forward at all?

It’s time to have the hard conversations. Sit down with your wife and explain to her why you can’t wear garments anymore. Let her honestly know that you are getting emotionally and mentally tired and that if you don’t make a change soon she won’t have you around much longer. I get concerned for people in faith transitions who start to get tired and are not making forward progress. It’s concerning because of the mental health implications.

Be honest. Be apologetic and resssure her that you removing your garments does not directly mean you don’t love her any less.

Take a step forward. At this point you have nothing to lose. You’ve already announced your unbeliever status to family, right?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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MerrieMiss
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by MerrieMiss » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:07 am

I'm tired too. I'm so sorry.
The true opposite of order is not disorder but freedom. Most profoundly, the true opposite of control is not chaos but self-control. -Jay Griffiths

TheRoadSouth
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by TheRoadSouth » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:50 am

I think most of us are tired from the painful and gut-wrenching, but beautiful, compassionate, truthful, and unbelievably liberating new world view that our perspective affords. It's living a dichotomy every day, and it's mental stretching and relationship-testing that cuts to the very core.

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jfro18
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by jfro18 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:12 am

I'm tired too... it costs sleep, mental well being, daily stress from not being able to communicate like you could before learning about the church.

It sucks... I hope everyone gets some relief and progress soon. And I say that knowing that many of you have it a lot more difficult than I do, so I can only imagine how it is for all of you.

Hang in there!

Thoughtful
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Thoughtful » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:55 am

I'm sorry. It's so lonely. I keep thinking how much easier it would be if Spouseman were actually able to confront the issues that he sees. Good luck to you. I think the advice upthread is great--to find a hobby you can pursue unrelated to the church. Focusing in on things I love (my dogs, hiking, gardening) and planning more fun family activities (ahem, which frequently roll into Sundays) has helped me quite a bit.

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Vlad the Emailer
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Vlad the Emailer » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:30 pm

I'm sorry too.

Yes, it does indeed suck.

And you stated it perfectly, linked.

It just freaking wears a person out trying to deal with all sides and keep some form of sanity, let alone any meaningful degree of individuality.

Internet hugs to all!!
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous

Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut

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Linked
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:18 pm

Thank you again to everyone for commiserating with me, I really appreciate it.

Part of this is compounded by a particularly draining few months at work. I just can't handle both. I had to take an extra day off just to get back to not freaking out. Things were better until lunch time today...

I spoke with DW. I tried to be vulnerable. I just told her the things that have been hard. Basically the list I posted in the first post, sans alcohol because that triggers her. It went okay, but nothing will change. She is fully TBM. I am fully out. We both know it. She told me she isn't forcing me to wear garments, and I asked her how she would respond. Would there be sleepless, tear-filled nights? How could I do that to her?

We might be able to manage in our marriage if we didn't have kids. But she wants them to go to church and I don't want to lose my kids to the church. I have a justified fear that the church will teach my kids that I am a bad person. She has a justified fear that I don't want my kids to believe in the LDS church doctrines. There is no middle ground here. Just pain and being tired.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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jfro18
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by jfro18 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:25 pm

I completely sympathize with you on this Linked -- I am in the same boat with our kid. DW is not bringing him right now as we figure out something, but I also worry that not only does she resent me for it, but that her church is constantly telling her what a monster I am for forcing her into the situation.

I live in constant fear of what her family is saying to her and what her ward is saying to her... it sucks.

And like you said - it's really hard to talk about it since we are just in opposite places. I blew it by throwing everything at her in an emotional way, and now she's retrenched in church stuff and just doesn't want to go over any of the problems with me.

I hope you find some breakthrough somehow and I really hope you are able to find a solution with the kids. I know I still have a road ahead to finding a solution that me and my wife can live with, but like you said - there are really no compromises here. My wife said that was why she can't bring him, because she doesn't want me to feel like she puts the church over our marriage. I just don't think that is sustainable long term either...

Always here to commiserate with you if need be!

Thoughtful
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Thoughtful » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:28 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:18 pm
Thank you again to everyone for commiserating with me, I really appreciate it.

Part of this is compounded by a particularly draining few months at work. I just can't handle both. I had to take an extra day off just to get back to not freaking out. Things were better until lunch time today...

I spoke with DW. I tried to be vulnerable. I just told her the things that have been hard. Basically the list I posted in the first post, sans alcohol because that triggers her. It went okay, but nothing will change. She is fully TBM. I am fully out. We both know it. She told me she isn't forcing me to wear garments, and I asked her how she would respond. Would there be sleepless, tear-filled nights? How could I do that to her?

We might be able to manage in our marriage if we didn't have kids. But she wants them to go to church and I don't want to lose my kids to the church. I have a justified fear that the church will teach my kids that I am a bad person. She has a justified fear that I don't want my kids to believe in the LDS church doctrines. There is no middle ground here. Just pain and being tired.
Dr Kristy Money has an free mixed faith marriage workbook. Have you already seen that? Is she open to therapy?

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Linked
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:42 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:28 pm
Dr Kristy Money has an free mixed faith marriage workbook. Have you already seen that? Is she open to therapy?
Thanks for the suggestion! I started going through the workbook with DW, see the thread here. It started out pretty icy, but I think she is warming up to it. Unfortunately with my current work schedule I haven't been able to keep up with it.

We tried couples therapy for a little while but she HATED that. I think she felt ganged up on. The snarky part of me thinks that deep down she knows if she confronts this that she will see that her position is unfair to me. She's not into talking about feelings or connecting. Maybe just with me because I hurt her early in our marriage, or maybe in general as she isn't close to many people.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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slavereeno
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by slavereeno » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:56 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:42 pm
The snarky part of me thinks that deep down she knows if she confronts this that she will see that her position is unfair to me.
I keep trying to remind myself that most of the time its the church is the one dishing out those unfair positions, not really the spouse that loves us. If your DW truly had her own identity would she put in these situations?

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No Tof
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by No Tof » Tue May 01, 2018 7:42 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:18 pm

I spoke with DW. I tried to be vulnerable. I just told her the things that have been hard. Basically the list I posted in the first post, sans alcohol because that triggers her. It went okay, but nothing will change. She is fully TBM. I am fully out. We both know it. She told me she isn't forcing me to wear garments, and I asked her how she would respond. Would there be sleepless, tear-filled nights? How could I do that to her?

We might be able to manage in our marriage if we didn't have kids. But she wants them to go to church and I don't want to lose my kids to the church. I have a justified fear that the church will teach my kids that I am a bad person. She has a justified fear that I don't want my kids to believe in the LDS church doctrines. There is no middle ground here. Just pain and being tired.
I’ll add my condolences to the ones written so well previously. It really is a loss in a MFR. My advice is to remember it is the LDS ORG that is most culpable here; not you or your wife.
Sadly though, it is a hard colt to dismount from.

IMO there will be “sleepless tear-filled nights for your DW no matter what you do. It’s the nature of the animal. Years of mind shaping indoctrination won’t go away without them. 😢

If I could go back a few years I would have gone much slower with my DW. I was just so darned excited to learn the real story and figured she would find it the same.

Red Ryder’s advice rings true to me. If the tiredness threatens your wellbeing (and I think it will) it’s time to move forward. Baby steps are ok. It will be easier for your DW but move forward you should.
Sounds like she opened the door to ditching the g’s. Super. You’ll feel better immediately. When the tears come, give her a hug and let her know you love her more then ever and you appreciate her trust in letting you live your truth as you “investigate “ the church from a new perspective.

You know alcohol is a trigger. Good for you to be sensitive. Patience pays dividends here IMO. (Except being nice to see what the rest of humanity is up to, I haven’t found fulfillment in booze. ) In time she will be more accepting of your lifestyle.

I would advise being upfront with your DW. the things I did on the sly all came back to bite me. I believed it was shielding her in some way, and I was afraid of her rejection. In hindsight, it would have been better to explain my position and make the decision to move forward with her in the know.

This has become too long.

All we can give is our opinions and hopefully this will be helpful. Hope you can make it work.

The hippies were right all along. It’s all love.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.
Rumi

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Linked
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Re: I'm Tired

Post by Linked » Tue May 01, 2018 8:08 am

slavereeno wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Linked wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:42 pm
The snarky part of me thinks that deep down she knows if she confronts this that she will see that her position is unfair to me.
I keep trying to remind myself that most of the time its the church is the one dishing out those unfair positions, not really the spouse that loves us. If your DW truly had her own identity would she put in these situations?
Thanks for the reminder, you are right. My wife would never put us in these situations without her background with the church. Unfortunately her identity is all wrapped up in the church, so the church is her position.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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