In Which my Family is Propelled

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Thoughtful
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In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Thoughtful » Mon May 28, 2018 10:52 pm

Into inactivity.

Some bad circumstances related to my being a mandated reporter have resulted in my household being counseled by LEO not to:

1- attend the LDS church
2- Interact with my in-laws

Temporary pending some legal stuff.

The circumstances are awful, and I'll fill in when it's safe to do so. (We are ok, thankfully).

No one, not one of us is missing attending church. Second Saturday is awesome. Even my 2nd grader is happy about it.

And the weird thing is, I've been worried about being shunned, but then I realized being the one not attending is powerful. I have no dog in the race, if my whole family is (much closer to) out.

But my MIL, my mother, my ward even have a large interest in me being there. If my Family is out, I (we) hold all the cards.

I am encouraging my family to enjoy the break. We had an awesome time Sunday doing a paid entertainment activity. No need for them to jump up and down about going back to church at some point. They need to thoroughly enjoy not being there.

Reuben
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Reuben » Tue May 29, 2018 12:21 am

Does LEO mean Law Enforcement Officer?

So weird. Glad you're safe. Enjoy the break!

The longer I've been inactive, the clearer and less emotional my thinking about the church has gotten. I wonder if the same thing goes for believers. In particular, I sometimes wonder if my NOMish wife would notice the crazy more if she took a short break.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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oliver_denom
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by oliver_denom » Tue May 29, 2018 6:35 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:52 pm
But my MIL, my mother, my ward even have a large interest in me being there. If my Family is out, I (we) hold all the cards.
Yes, this. I don't know why it took so long for me to see the real power dynamic. The church has done such a fabulous job indoctrinating us with the belief that we need the church more than it needs us, and that them allowing us to pay tithing and perform callings was some sort of benevolent favor, that it never occurred to me that it's the other way around. Aren't they the ones devoting 90% of their efforts into bringing people back, bringing new people in, and preventing current people from leaving? It really seems like they're the ones needing asses in seats.

It raises the age old question, if a Bishop bares his testimony in a forest, but no one is around to hear it, does he still get his ass kissed?
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

L'enfer, c'est les autres - JP

Thoughtful
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Thoughtful » Tue May 29, 2018 3:52 pm

Reuben wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:21 am
Does LEO mean Law Enforcement Officer?

So weird. Glad you're safe. Enjoy the break!

The longer I've been inactive, the clearer and less emotional my thinking about the church has gotten. I wonder if the same thing goes for believers. In particular, I sometimes wonder if my NOMish wife would notice the crazy more if she took a short break.
Yes, LEO is a police detective. We are not the subject of the investigation, but one of my children was being harassed by a priesthood leader.

This particular situation is helping spouseman see some of the crazy. Apart from the effect on my kids, it's been a blessing, "tender mercy" in that regard.

Thoughtful
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Thoughtful » Tue May 29, 2018 3:53 pm

oliver_denom wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:35 am
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:52 pm
But my MIL, my mother, my ward even have a large interest in me being there. If my Family is out, I (we) hold all the cards.
Yes, this. I don't know why it took so long for me to see the real power dynamic. The church has done such a fabulous job indoctrinating us with the belief that we need the church more than it needs us, and that them allowing us to pay tithing and perform callings was some sort of benevolent favor, that it never occurred to me that it's the other way around. Aren't they the ones devoting 90% of their efforts into bringing people back, bringing new people in, and preventing current people from leaving? It really seems like they're the ones needing asses in seats.

It raises the age old question, if a Bishop bares his testimony in a forest, but no one is around to hear it, does he still get his ass kissed?
Exactly. On a family level, I am now the harbinger of sad heaven... that's a lot of responsibility, being able to turn someone's heaven into hell...

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oliver_denom
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by oliver_denom » Wed May 30, 2018 7:00 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:53 pm
Exactly. On a family level, I am now the harbinger of sad heaven... that's a lot of responsibility, being able to turn someone's heaven into hell...
That's a lot of power you've got there. It's one thing to ruin Christmas, but it's a whole other thing to ruin heaven. You'd have to be more powerful than god himself.
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

L'enfer, c'est les autres - JP

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Angel
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Angel » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:58 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:52 pm
... one of my children was being harassed by a priesthood leader.
I'm in the same boat - with multiple kids... he video-taped what he did, so thankful it does not come down to victim shaming etc. but it is taking forever to be resolved, I suppose will never be resolved? The priesthood leader is in jail at least, court date is now pushed off until Nov? It has been a very painful road. Big hugs being sent out to you!!!
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Thoughtful
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Angel wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:58 am
Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:52 pm
... one of my children was being harassed by a priesthood leader.
I'm in the same boat - with multiple kids... he video-taped what he did, so thankful it does not come down to victim shaming etc. but it is taking forever to be resolved, I suppose will never be resolved? The priesthood leader is in jail at least, court date is now pushed off until Nov? It has been a very painful road. Big hugs being sent out to you!!!
How terrible, I am so sorry. We are still waiting for the forensic crime lab to come back from the things taken from his home. They want to strengthen the case, because without it, they have "battery with intent" but they think if there's porn on his devices they can up the severity of the charge. Good luck and keep us updated on your situation.

Thoughtful
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:03 pm

Today we had another awesome second Saturday involving airplanes and flying them.

The bishop called and wants to come visit tonight after the youth fireside. So I'm nervous and really don't want another emotional run through of all the things happening right now. However, I am also completely unsure of how to talk to my bishop about what is going on and whether to continue to avoid talking about where I am at with the church. My temple recommend expires at the end of this month. If I continue to play along I can renew for 2 years and attend family events. Or I can bail and be done with it all.

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Angel
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Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Angel » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:49 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:56 pm
Angel wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:58 am
Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:52 pm
... one of my children was being harassed by a priesthood leader.
I'm in the same boat - with multiple kids... he video-taped what he did, so thankful it does not come down to victim shaming etc. but it is taking forever to be resolved, I suppose will never be resolved? The priesthood leader is in jail at least, court date is now pushed off until Nov? It has been a very painful road. Big hugs being sent out to you!!!
How terrible, I am so sorry. We are still waiting for the forensic crime lab to come back from the things taken from his home. They want to strengthen the case, because without it, they have "battery with intent" but they think if there's porn on his devices they can up the severity of the charge. Good luck and keep us updated on your situation.
So frustrating - yes, they fight it... so much for repentance starting with confession. The cameras saved us - I am now in favor of putting cameras almost everywhere, and teaching everyone - all youth - if they ever feel uncomfortable, just get out that cell phone camera. ... and expect, that wherever you are, there are cameras watching you because... ugh... he had video of me too :( ... Victims have to collect their own evidence, have to prove their word is more trustworthy, have to relive everything ... I understand "innocent until proven guilty", but man - proving someone guilty is a real mess...

Any other victims out there - if you do not turn them in, they will abuse others. You have to turn them in. You also have to collect evidence. It is horrible, but it is what it is.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Thoughtful
Posts: 816
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: In Which my Family is Propelled

Post by Thoughtful » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:35 pm

Angel wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:49 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:56 pm
Angel wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:58 am


I'm in the same boat - with multiple kids... he video-taped what he did, so thankful it does not come down to victim shaming etc. but it is taking forever to be resolved, I suppose will never be resolved? The priesthood leader is in jail at least, court date is now pushed off until Nov? It has been a very painful road. Big hugs being sent out to you!!!
How terrible, I am so sorry. We are still waiting for the forensic crime lab to come back from the things taken from his home. They want to strengthen the case, because without it, they have "battery with intent" but they think if there's porn on his devices they can up the severity of the charge. Good luck and keep us updated on your situation.
So frustrating - yes, they fight it... so much for repentance starting with confession. The cameras saved us - I am now in favor of putting cameras almost everywhere, and teaching everyone - all youth - if they ever feel uncomfortable, just get out that cell phone camera. ... and expect, that wherever you are, there are cameras watching you because... ugh... he had video of me too :( ... Victims have to collect their own evidence, have to prove their word is more trustworthy, have to relive everything ... I understand "innocent until proven guilty", but man - proving someone guilty is a real mess...

Any other victims out there - if you do not turn them in, they will abuse others. You have to turn them in. You also have to collect evidence. It is horrible, but it is what it is.

What is irking me right now is the fact that church discipline doesn't happen in cases of child abuse without a conviction.

If I were to step out on Spouseman, and he told on me, or if the neighbors saw me running around, the church could use that "evidence" to discipline me. But a child molester needs a conviction before they stop shrugging our shoulders and saying, "let the law do it's job."

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