Marriage Vows

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Angel
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Marriage Vows

Post by Angel » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:20 am

The typical marriage covenant goes something like:

Would you please face each other and join hands.
(Groom) ___________________do you take _________________to be your wife?
Do you promise to love, honor, cherish and protect her, forsaking all others
and holding only to her forevermore?
(“I do”)
(Bride) ________________do you take_________________ to be your Husband?
Do you promise to love, honor, cherish and protect him, forsaking all others
and holding only to him forevermore?

http://www.vowsoftheheart.com/ceramonie ... -ceremony/

I am curious about the "forsaking all others" and vows of loyalty - is there anything in the LDS marriage vow against adultery? anything about loyalty?

I am now thinking the traditional Christian covenant is much better than the LDS version - it is not a marriage if it does not require loyalty.

LDS marriage vows: https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon127.htm

"That's it! No lasting symbols (rings), no affection (you may kiss the bride), and no "honor, love or cherish one another." It seems like you're marrying the church more than you're marrying one another. Do any of you have fonder memories of the temple marriage ceremony experience? The whole temple ceremony part seems so dry and shallow, have any of you found deeper meaning there? The temple experience was so un-sentimental, that I've heard of Ex-Mormons re-doing their wedding vows and mentioning things like love and companionship. Any thoughts?"

I so agree with the above sentiments.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Corsair
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Corsair » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:44 am

The word "love" does not appear in any part of the LDS temple ceremony. The temple is control mechanism for loyalty and love has not part of it.

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Angel
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Angel » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:33 am

Corsair wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:44 am
The word "love" does not appear in any part of the LDS temple ceremony. The temple is control mechanism for loyalty and love has not part of it.
That is so sad....

Here is an example of vows atheists take:

I, (name), take you, (name), to be my lawfully wedded (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better and for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, keeping myself only unto you until we are parted by death.
I give to you everything I am and everything I will ever be. I value our friendship beyond measure. I promise to share your dreams and help you achieve your goals. I will never stand behind you or in front of you but always beside you. I will listen to you with an open heart and an open mind pledging my honesty, compassion, fidelity and forgiveness. I promise to love you no matter what tomorrow brings. I will always be your most loyal friend and your loving husband/wife because you are my heart and my soul now and forever.
Today I marry my best friend, the one I will live with, dream with, and love. I, (name), take you to be my husband/wife/partner. From this day forward I will cherish you, looking with joy down the path of our tomorrows knowing we will walk it together side by side, hand in hand and heart to heart.



so beautiful... I guess that is why atheists have lower divorce rates than Mormons, they are actually getting married to a person, rather than to an organization.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Hermey
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Hermey » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:04 pm

Angel wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:33 am

I, (name), take you, (name), to be my lawfully wedded (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better and for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, keeping myself only unto you until we are parted by death.
I give to you everything I am and everything I will ever be. I value our friendship beyond measure. I promise to share your dreams and help you achieve your goals. I will never stand behind you or in front of you but always beside you. I will listen to you with an open heart and an open mind pledging my honesty, compassion, fidelity and forgiveness. I promise to love you no matter what tomorrow brings. I will always be your most loyal friend and your loving husband/wife because you are my heart and my soul now and forever.
Today I marry my best friend, the one I will live with, dream with, and love. I, (name), take you to be my husband/wife/partner. From this day forward I will cherish you, looking with joy down the path of our tomorrows knowing we will walk it together side by side, hand in hand and heart to heart.



so beautiful... I guess that is why atheists have lower divorce rates than Mormons, they are actually getting married to a person, rather than to an organization.
Absolutely love this!

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Linked
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Linked » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:59 pm

Angel wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:33 am
I, (name), take you, (name), to be my lawfully wedded (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better and for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, keeping myself only unto you until we are parted by death.
I give to you everything I am and everything I will ever be. I value our friendship beyond measure. I promise to share your dreams and help you achieve your goals. I will never stand behind you or in front of you but always beside you. I will listen to you with an open heart and an open mind pledging my honesty, compassion, fidelity and forgiveness. I promise to love you no matter what tomorrow brings. I will always be your most loyal friend and your loving husband/wife because you are my heart and my soul now and forever.
Today I marry my best friend, the one I will live with, dream with, and love. I, (name), take you to be my husband/wife/partner. From this day forward I will cherish you, looking with joy down the path of our tomorrows knowing we will walk it together side by side, hand in hand and heart to heart.
I'm not crying, you're crying
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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wtfluff
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by wtfluff » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:28 pm

I'd love to re-up marriage vows with my siggy other, since the polygamist temple ceremony has literally nothing to do with vows between two people.

Thanks to LDS-Inc. it seems more likely that it will end up in divorce vows. :x
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Dravin
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Dravin » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:41 pm

Angel wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:20 am
I am curious about the "forsaking all others" and vows of loyalty - is there anything in the LDS marriage vow against adultery? anything about loyalty?
I honestly can't remember what was said during the sealing ceremony. It's what happens when you do something once, are deprived of sleep because you got up early, and are giddily staring across the alter. I basically listened for the cue to say my "Yes." and that's about it. Other than that it's a blank, I'm glad you linked it.

Interesting. What stands out to me is how vague it is. Basically you agree to whatever the LDS teachings on marriage are at that point there isn't anything concretely references and it strikes me as so broilerplaty like a TOS for a video game service.

Officiator: Do you Dravin agree to the marriage terms and conditions as outlined in LDS Marriage Policies as found on www.LDS.org/MarriageTOS ? You may now click "Agree".
It seems like you're marrying the church more than you're marrying one another.
I'd agree. It's like a joint contract with the church rather than anything to do with each other. Though honestly considering the whole Jesus/God triangle in marriage stuff I've seen and heard at church I expect a fair number of TBM would actually agree with that. Also the cynic in my wants to point out by making it about party 1, party 2, and the church then it is easy for party 1 and party 3 to make the same agreement without conflict. It's set-up to compatible with polygamy.
The temple experience was so un-sentimental, that I've heard of Ex-Mormons re-doing their wedding vows and mentioning things like love and companionship. Any thoughts?"
I'd love to be able to do that. Both for our sake and for her nevermo father's who wasn't able to attend the actual ceremony (as lackluster as it would have been to witness). She's never go for it, she's see such a suggestion as an attack on her religion and even if I convinced her she'd likely carry significant guilt. There are times I think about it and it makes me want to say some choice about a religion that is supposedly about family that demanded she exclude her father from her own marriage ceremony or feel like she disappointed god. I guess in a weird way there is a benefit to the fact her mother has passed away before we got married, at least then in her own mind at least her mother could be there.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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wtfluff
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by wtfluff » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm

Angel wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:20 am
I am curious about the "forsaking all others" and vows of loyalty - is there anything in the LDS marriage vow against adultery? anything about loyalty?
The "forsaking all others" would be the law of chastity in the endowment.

Loyalty? Well again, as part of the endowment, the woman promises herself to the man, and the man promises himself to the lord, so no, there is not really a promise of loyalty "between" the couple.

As others have mentioned, the above is not part of the LDS sealing ceremony, but the sealing, and the endowment are all inextricably intertwined, so they might as well be one and the same.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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slavereeno
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by slavereeno » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:52 pm

The preamble speeches are all focused on temple attendance, tithing, and revering the most high and holy profit, even Russil M Neltsin and trusty side kicks.

I don't hear anything anymore about love, respect, romance or any of that marital nonsense. Just pay your tithing and go to the temple twice a week and everything will work out fine.

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Dravin
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Dravin » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:02 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm
The "forsaking all others" would be the law of chastity in the endowment.
The law of chastity as explained in the endowment is not to forsake all others. It's to only have relations with someone you are married to so leaves the door open for polygamous relationships, if the church reinstituted polygamy tomorrow they'd not have to change a single thing about the way the law of chastity is explained in the endowment. Well okay, they may have to finagle the legally and lawfully aspect these days but no more so than they have to to make it exclude same sex marriages.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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wtfluff
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by wtfluff » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:23 pm

Dravin wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:02 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm
The "forsaking all others" would be the law of chastity in the endowment.
The law of chastity as explained in the endowment is not to forsake all others. It's to only have relations with someone you are married to so leaves the door open for polygamous relationships, if the church reinstituted polygamy tomorrow they'd not have to change a single thing about the way the law of chastity is explained in the endowment. Well okay, they may have to finagle the legally and lawfully aspect these days but no more so than they have to to make it exclude same sex marriages.
Good point. I kinda forgot (yipee!) about how the wording can still be used for polygamous unions. The "legal and lawful" aspect popped into my head also.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Angel
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Angel » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:15 pm

Dravin wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:41 pm

I'd love to be able to do that. Both for our sake and for her nevermo father's who wasn't able to attend the actual ceremony (as lackluster as it would have been to witness). She's never go for it, she's see such a suggestion as an attack on her religion and even if I convinced her she'd likely carry significant guilt. There are times I think about it and it makes me want to say some choice about a religion that is supposedly about family that demanded she exclude her father from her own marriage ceremony or feel like she disappointed god. I guess in a weird way there is a benefit to the fact her mother has passed away before we got married, at least then in her own mind at least her mother could be there.
Neither of my parents were able to attend my marriage, so sad, I cannot believe I did that to them. .. and now, I might not be able to attend my children's marriages... we will see.

Authentic, open, accepting families vs... obligatory, forced, commanded families (comandment to get married, commanded to have kids, commanded to indoctrinate kids) .... wow, I was young and naive.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Just This Guy
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Just This Guy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:51 am

DW and I did a vow renewal a few months ago. We both wrote our own vows. Here is mine:

I,[Just This Guy], do hereby take you again to be my love, my best friend, and my wife.
I promise to love, honor, and cherish you though the good times and the bad.
I promise to be your support, comfort and strength.
I promise to be there for you when you need it.
I vow to take your hand when it’s too dark, and the dog out when it’s too early.
I promise to be your cohort in mischief.
I promise to share your hopes and dreams with mine.
Though the ups and downs, for rich or for poor, for better or worse, I will be there for you.
That is my vow to you.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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IT_Veteran
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by IT_Veteran » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:52 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:51 am
DW and I did a vow renewal a few months ago. We both wrote our own vows. Here is mine:

I,[Just This Guy], do hereby take you again to be my love, my best friend, and my wife.
I promise to love, honor, and cherish you though the good times and the bad.
I promise to be your support, comfort and strength.
I promise to be there for you when you need it.
I vow to take your hand when it’s too dark, and the dog out when it’s too early.
I promise to be your cohort in mischief.
I promise to share your hopes and dreams with mine.
Though the ups and downs, for rich or for poor, for better or worse, I will be there for you.
That is my vow to you.
Bravo to you and DW. I love the little bit of irreverence there toward the end!

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Angel
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Re: Marriage Vows

Post by Angel » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:35 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:51 am
DW and I did a vow renewal a few months ago. We both wrote our own vows. Here is mine:

I,[Just This Guy], do hereby take you again to be my love, my best friend, and my wife.
I promise to love, honor, and cherish you though the good times and the bad.
I promise to be your support, comfort and strength.
I promise to be there for you when you need it.
I vow to take your hand when it’s too dark, and the dog out when it’s too early.
I promise to be your cohort in mischief.
I promise to share your hopes and dreams with mine.
Though the ups and downs, for rich or for poor, for better or worse, I will be there for you.
That is my vow to you.
Ditto - love love love this.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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