Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Mormorrisey
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Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:20 am

So Sis. M and I had some very interesting conversations the past couple of days, given the release of the new topics essays - some of it positive, and some of it NOT so positive. And a lot of the latter, frankly, has been my fault. I forget that I'm playing the long game, and try to push a bit on her thinking. It never ends well, and I need to remember not to run faster than she has strength, yada yada.

But a few nights ago, while we were sleeping (and just a side note, I need to remember that the intimacy of the marital sleeping quarters is probably the best place to have vulnerable conversations, where I can lay bare my own soul for her) we had just gone over some of my challenges with church stuff. Because it was vulnerable, I said something to her I haven't for the entire five or six years of my faith transition journey, which I probably should have right off the hopper. I said the following, paraphrasing: "You know, dear, that I never willingly went LOOKING for any of this stuff. I never used any of this as an excuse to sin, an excuse to leave you, or an excuse to leave the church."

The important part? I could see her mind churning at this, and she just answered with a soft voice, "I know you didn't." That one admission has created more harmony in my home, more unconditional love between the two of us, than I could have imagined. It's been wonderful. Now, there's no question that I'm going to screw it up at some point this week, that's just the nature of marriage and the nature of ME, but for now, I'll take it. And I'm going to remember to remind her of this as often as I can - the information is just THERE, the facts are the facts, and I don't have to like it, but it sure doesn't affect how much I love her and hope to spend the rest of my days with her.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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jfro18
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by jfro18 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:34 am

It sounds like you're at least finding some sure footing to stand on, and I think that's the most important thing to have until she's ready.

I hope that leads to more progress for you and I really hope that gives you some breathing room when you do screw up as we all do on here. :D

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slavereeno
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by slavereeno » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:16 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:20 am
The important part? I could see her mind churning at this, and she just answered with a soft voice, "I know you didn't." That one admission has created more harmony in my home, more unconditional love between the two of us, than I could have imagined. It's been wonderful. Now, there's no question that I'm going to screw it up at some point this week, that's just the nature of marriage and the nature of ME, but for now, I'll take it. And I'm going to remember to remind her of this as often as I can - the information is just THERE, the facts are the facts, and I don't have to like it, but it sure doesn't affect how much I love her and hope to spend the rest of my days with her.
Beautiful.

I am there with you, screwing this up all the time with DW.

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græy
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by græy » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:12 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:20 am
The important part? I could see her mind churning at this, and she just answered with a soft voice, "I know you didn't."
That is a big step. If a spouse can understand that our foundations have been rocked as hard as theirs, it goes a long way to keeping the two of you on common ground, working through all of this together.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by MerrieMiss » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:29 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:20 am
I forget that I'm playing the long game, and try to push a bit on her thinking. It never ends well, and I need to remember not to run faster than she has strength, yada yada.
So isn't this the difficult thing? Husband and I are having a conversation, and I hold back because I think to myself, "long game, long game, don't push, let him think this through on his own" but there's a part of me that wonders if I'm not communicating enough, or if I'm withholding too much, am I being dishonest...

Reminding our loved ones that we're still here, that we love them, that nothing about that has fundamentally changed is so important and effective and tempering volatile situations. Here's to hoping that the harmony and love lasts a little longer than one week!
The true opposite of order is not disorder but freedom. Most profoundly, the true opposite of control is not chaos but self-control. -Jay Griffiths

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Hagoth
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by Hagoth » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:25 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:20 am
"You know, dear, that I never willingly went LOOKING for any of this stuff. I never used any of this as an excuse to sin, an excuse to leave you, or an excuse to leave the church."
This is the great secret of disaffection that the church doesn't want it's members to know: those who are looking hardest for the truth are often horrified to discover that the church doesn't have it. And it's not their fault that they came to that realization.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:46 am

MerrieMiss wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:29 pm
Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:20 am
I forget that I'm playing the long game, and try to push a bit on her thinking. It never ends well, and I need to remember not to run faster than she has strength, yada yada.
So isn't this the difficult thing? Husband and I are having a conversation, and I hold back because I think to myself, "long game, long game, don't push, let him think this through on his own" but there's a part of me that wonders if I'm not communicating enough, or if I'm withholding too much, am I being dishonest...

Reminding our loved ones that we're still here, that we love them, that nothing about that has fundamentally changed is so important and effective and tempering volatile situations. Here's to hoping that the harmony and love lasts a little longer than one week!
It IS a fine balancing act, MM. At various points, Sis M. will ask me what's going on in my head when it comes to church, and she is geniunely curious. When I'm smart, I'll start out by saying that sometimes this causes arguments, and maybe we shouldn't, in order to gauge where's she's at. When she says, no, I'm fine today, we can have a rational, calm conversation about things that bother me. But SHE needs to be in the mood. It doesn't happen very often, and I have to be calm, but these conversations end well. It's when out of the blue I go on a rant, that it ends badly. Being human sucks.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Is She Coming Around? Maybe, Maybe Not, and It's OK

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:10 am

That is excellent progress. Bearing your pain over the situation, that's it's not at all what you wanted to have happen in your life, to discover truths that have thrown you into a rash of awful mental anguish, but that above all of that, you love her and cherish your relationship with her. This is a key foundation to giving your spouse somewhere to land if their shelf breaks; it's some reassurance that there would be life after church. The NOM spouse expressing sincere feelings about the sever pain of the cogdis, at least at carefully planned times. But in spite of the pain, showing they are willing to tow the party line for the love of the TBM spouse. The NOM spouse can double down on their love and love actions as well. This does not always work but I believe it can overcome the power of the COB in many relationships. Over time, there will be some trigger or dare I use the word "catalyst" that may break the TBM spouse's shelf, like a policy change, but more likely a respected friend or family member having their shelf break.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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