Tribal rhetoric and the practice of "othering"

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Tribal rhetoric and the practice of "othering"

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:11 pm

Today in sacrament meeting we had a young newly married couple speak. I generally give young people a pass when they give the indoctrinated speeches full of rhetoric but this particular young woman struck a nerve as the talk was particularly tuned to make my wife cry and give damaging messages to my kids.

Her main premise was a sobbing story about how un-lucky she was that her father was a non-member and that he never joined the church when her mother became active and started raising the kids in the church. She was particularly upset that her brother had to be put in this terrible situation of being the one to give out blessings.

I was thinking afterwards (after watching my wife cry during the talk) that I wish I had the bravery to approach her and tell her she is just lucky to have a Dad at all and he sounds cool as fu%$ and I would love to meet him to get his side of the story, but alas I had to go mountain biking instead for more effective therapy.

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Angel
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Re: Tribal rhetoric and the practice of

Post by Angel » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:05 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:11 pm
Today in sacrament meeting we had a young newly married couple speak. I generally give young people a pass when they give the indoctrinated speeches full of rhetoric but this particular young woman struck a nerve as the talk was particularly tuned to make my wife cry and give damaging messages to my kids.

Her main premise was a sobbing story about how un-lucky she was that her father was a non-member and that he never joined the church when her mother became active and started raising the kids in the church. She was particularly upset that her brother had to be put in this terrible situation of being the one to give out blessings.

I was thinking afterwards (after watching my wife cry during the talk) that I wish I had the bravery to approach her and tell her she is just lucky to have a Dad at all and he sounds cool as fu%$ and I would love to meet him to get his side of the story, but alas I had to go mountain biking instead for more effective therapy.
Ugh, this is why I do not attend church any more even though my family does. TSCC really is great at mind control. I run a food bank, volunteer with immigrants, am a professor who gets first-generation ESOL students their family's first college degree, I've seen my students turn generational poverty around after getting their degree... but you know, I'm total scum because I don't go to church. Everyone crowds around my kids, pats them on the shoulder with pity because their mom is such an evil influence and they are "so strong" not to listen to anything I have to tell them...

Sure sure - sit down in pretty dresses and suits and listen to how wonderful you are vs. spend the day in cut-offs tutoring, counseling, and actually helping people... but you know, I am evil for working on Sunday...
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Corsair
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Re: Tribal rhetoric and the practice of

Post by Corsair » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:49 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:11 pm
Today in sacrament meeting we had a young newly married couple speak. I generally give young people a pass when they give the indoctrinated speeches full of rhetoric but this particular young woman struck a nerve as the talk was particularly tuned to make my wife cry and give damaging messages to my kids.
The LDS church has earned its enemies. My maintenance of a temple recommend is absolutely nuts and I anticipate the annual cognitive and emotional distress my dear wife whenever will experience when I sit in front of the bishop and again tell him that I am a full tithe payer. But, I am not desirous to let the LDS church supplant my role as father and husband in my house quite yet. I foresee some unpleasant experience in the future when I inevitably have to make my feelings public.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Tribal rhetoric and the practice of

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:53 am

A great little thread - and it is a problem in the church. My Dad was an inactive member who had numerous challenges with the WoW, law of chastity and all the other commandments. Yet, I got along with him WAAAY more than my narcissistic and fundamentalist TBM Mom, which probably sowed the seeds of my apostasy even back then. My Dad died several years ago, and I still miss him. I'm so pleased I never bought into this othering principle, because I would have missed out on the relationship I had with him, which was always more fulfilling than the browbeating I got from Mom.

But that is a sucky message to give to your wife and kids, FFM. Do they not see the damage this does? Does ANYBODY push back? Some weeks ago we had a lesson about how some people worried more about their family relationships than getting married in the temple, and I sort of interrupted and said even the church saw this as a hardship, and that's probably why they changed their policy. That quieted the self-righteous crowd a bit, but my goodness, there needs to be some pushback on these ideas. Good luck with the rest of your week!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Linked
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Re: Tribal rhetoric and the practice of

Post by Linked » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:27 am

Ugh. Those talks are the worst. It lays bare the most personal things we worry about in mixed faith families, that the church will poison our relationships with our spouse and children. Or on crappier days that we have poisoned our relationship with our spouse and children. Days like that push me to come up with ways to keep my kids out of church on Sundays.

We got a similar message a few weeks ago from the wife of a member of the SP (and my wife's former VT companion). She said that all that women want from a man is someone who will take them to the temple and go to church with them and just be a righteous priesthood holder; is that so much to ask?! I poked my wife and gave her a stupid grin and parroted "is that so much to ask?!?!" because that's how I deal with that crap.
Corsair wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:49 am
I am not desirous to let the LDS church supplant my role as father and husband in my house quite yet.
Amen. Let my own stupid mistakes destroy my relationship with my wife and kids. I don't need any help!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Emower
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Re: Tribal rhetoric and the practice of

Post by Emower » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:05 am

This was the topic du jour for many of my heavy conversations with my DW. For the longest time I did not trust that she wouldnt be affected by these types of teachings. We didnt have good ways of working past it. We finally hit on something that would be sufficient for me, however it did involve a sacrifice on her part. I still feel a little guilty that I was not able to contain my faith crisis to me only. But once we figured out how to trust each other life has been much much better.

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