Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Linked
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Linked » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:35 am

Deepthinker wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:08 am
A quick update.

I hired an attorney several months ago and have divorce papers ready to file, which she knows about. I have been talking to her about divorce, talking about not wanting to go to litigation, but she wants to still make the marriage "work". We've been sleeping in separate rooms for a few months. Went to a few marriage therapy sessions together.

After telling her about the divorce papers a few months ago, she went into a panic, which has kept me staying with her because I don't want to hurt her. I want to give her some time to process me leaving, but I've felt the need to get to the root of my own feelings as well. After some tearful discussions shortly after her telling her about the divorce papers, she went outside and came back 10 minutes later saying she prayed and God told her we needed to stay together. This is coming from someone who has always told me she has had a difficult time getting answers to prayers, and never knows if it's an answer from God or her own thoughts and feelings.

I just feel myself continuing to detach from her emotionally. Our conversations end up being the same ones that go around in circles with no resolution. We both think so differently, that it's like we're trying to connect two communication cables together that aren't using the same protocols.
Wow, that's a huge step. Thanks for the update. It sounds like the whole thing has been really hard, I'm sorry you are going through this. That's interesting how she was able to find revelation so quickly.

She still wants to make the marriage "work"; is anything improving? Has she made any changes? Are you waiting for her to somehow give you permission to file papers?

I like your metaphor for communication. Sometimes I feel like communication with some is like 2 gears that are just bouncing off the edges instead of meshing.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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jfro18
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by jfro18 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:15 pm

Deepthinker wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:08 am
I just feel myself continuing to detach from her emotionally. Our conversations end up being the same ones that go around in circles with no resolution. We both think so differently, that it's like we're trying to connect two communication cables together that aren't using the same protocols.
I'm so sorry you're both going through this and like Linked I can't imagine but what your wife is thinking that she feels a revelation that quickly when before she admitted it was more about what she wanted.

And I have to admit I really feel you on this last paragraph.... it is so hard to communicate when two people are in two different worlds of thought (reality?) and it makes every conversation going in the same circle where no one is willing to actually discuss the underlying issues because we mentally can't do it when we're starting at polar opposites.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing - I always feel terrible reading these posts even if they will ultimately be for the best.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:24 am

It seems like she doesn’t know how to react authentically and is numb. She thinks the god said to stay and work on it answer will suffice. But nothing will change and you’ll find yourself at the same place emotionally.

You deserve to be in a healthy loving relationship.
“I switched baristas” —Lady Gaga

Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:22 am

Linked wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:35 am
Wow, that's a huge step. Thanks for the update. It sounds like the whole thing has been really hard, I'm sorry you are going through this. That's interesting how she was able to find revelation so quickly.

She still wants to make the marriage "work"; is anything improving? Has she made any changes? Are you waiting for her to somehow give you permission to file papers?

I like your metaphor for communication. Sometimes I feel like communication with some is like 2 gears that are just bouncing off the edges instead of meshing.
It's been more difficult than going through my faith transition, although I do feel like going through that helped prepare me for this somewhat.

She has been going to therapy on her own. Some things feel like they change, but then we have a conversation that goes back into this seemingly never ending loop where things aren't resolved. She has improved and made some changes, for herself and her own growth. I feel as though regardless of those changes, we're not compatible enough to make a healthy relationship work.

In a way I'm waiting for her permission, but that's a part of it and not exactly how I feel. My own feelings that have been there for the last several years are coming to the surface, where I finally see them, and how much I had already detached from her over those years. I care about her...that's a big reason I haven't left yet. She's been a SAHM for so many years, and has been working part time as a preschool aid for the last several. No degree, even though I've pushed and encouraged her to finish one for at least the last 7 or 8 years as the kids were older. I want her to be Ok financially, to not worry. In more than just financial, I've been her caretaker on so many things, and I am trying to detach myself further from the caretaker role.

I like your metaphor too/! :D

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:32 am

jfro18 wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:15 pm
Deepthinker wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:08 am
I just feel myself continuing to detach from her emotionally. Our conversations end up being the same ones that go around in circles with no resolution. We both think so differently, that it's like we're trying to connect two communication cables together that aren't using the same protocols.
I'm so sorry you're both going through this and like Linked I can't imagine but what your wife is thinking that she feels a revelation that quickly when before she admitted it was more about what she wanted.

And I have to admit I really feel you on this last paragraph.... it is so hard to communicate when two people are in two different worlds of thought (reality?) and it makes every conversation going in the same circle where no one is willing to actually discuss the underlying issues because we mentally can't do it when we're starting at polar opposites.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing - I always feel terrible reading these posts even if they will ultimately be for the best.
Thanks jfro, there's been a lot of her behavior that has felt like that. Not really authentic, or selfishly for her. I haven't felt a healthy love from her in a long time. I don't see her as a bad person at all, but as someone I can't have a healthy emotional bond.

Yes, it is like living two different realities. She's tried to convince me of hers without attempting to understand mine, which has felt like gaslighting. So many circular and repeated conversations, and that's been part of the exhaustion. I can't emotionally invest in them anymore, it's too draining.

I know, I feel the awful feelings about being where I am right now in this relationship. I don't want to hurt anyone, but I can't keep going with my own hurt that isn't healing. I hope you're managing your own path and finding peace.

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:36 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:24 am
It seems like she doesn’t know how to react authentically and is numb. She thinks the god said to stay and work on it answer will suffice. But nothing will change and you’ll find yourself at the same place emotionally.

You deserve to be in a healthy loving relationship.
Thanks RR, you're exactly right about her not knowing how to react authentically. I think she doesn't truly love who I am as a person, and I'm still discovering parts of my own self, but loves the perception of who I am. I feel like staying with her is preventing me from further growth.

We all deserve that kind of relationship. I hope you're doing well RR! I know I haven't been that active on here, but I do lurk every now and then, and I will never forget all of my NOM friends.

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Linked
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Linked » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:08 pm

Deepthinker wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:22 am
It's been more difficult than going through my faith transition, although I do feel like going through that helped prepare me for this somewhat.

She has been going to therapy on her own. Some things feel like they change, but then we have a conversation that goes back into this seemingly never ending loop where things aren't resolved. She has improved and made some changes, for herself and her own growth. I feel as though regardless of those changes, we're not compatible enough to make a healthy relationship work.

In a way I'm waiting for her permission, but that's a part of it and not exactly how I feel. My own feelings that have been there for the last several years are coming to the surface, where I finally see them, and how much I had already detached from her over those years. I care about her...that's a big reason I haven't left yet. She's been a SAHM for so many years, and has been working part time as a preschool aid for the last several. No degree, even though I've pushed and encouraged her to finish one for at least the last 7 or 8 years as the kids were older. I want her to be Ok financially, to not worry. In more than just financial, I've been her caretaker on so many things, and I am trying to detach myself further from the caretaker role.

I like your metaphor too/! :D
This stuff is so hard.

I'm impressed that she is going to therapy, that's a difficult step for many TBMs. Hopefully the changes she has made will help lead her to a better place and possibly to see you for you and accept/appreciate the good man you are. But even that may still not resolve the loop, or get you on the same communication protocol.

That is very thoughtful of you to try to make sure she is ok through all of this.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:28 am

Hey DT,

Was thinking about your story today. Any updates on the divorce talk?
“I switched baristas” —Lady Gaga

Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:23 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:28 am
Hey DT,

Was thinking about your story today. Any updates on the divorce talk?
Hi RR,

You're very kind. Sorry for the late reply here. My wife and I both ended up getting Covid over the holidays, so it slowed me moving forward with things. That and I didn't want such a big disruption to the family during that time.

I feel like even though she still doesn't want the divorce, she's more comfortable with it. She's taking some medication for anxiety and depression and it seems like she's doing better.

I ended up filing for divorce a few weeks ago, she knew I was planning on it several weeks prior and we discussed it often over the last few months. It's been one of the most difficult things I've had to do, but I'd say telling the kids was even harder. We're going to go to mediation as soon as we can and get things worked out as amicably as possible.

Edit: I would like to add to this thread, for those of you who have been following, that the issues in my marriage went beyond just trying to make a mixed faith marriage work.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 pm

Deepthinker wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:23 pm

Edit: I would like to add to this thread, for those of you who have been following, that the issues in my marriage went beyond just trying to make a mixed faith marriage work.
They all do. Faith awakening just exacerbates the existing problems. A recent aunt and uncle just decided to separate after 30 years. Everyone’s upset but it seems like a good decision if they’re both not happy. Life is too short.

Hang in there. Protect yourself. Don’t feel guilty.
“I switched baristas” —Lady Gaga

Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:06 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 pm
Deepthinker wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:23 pm

Edit: I would like to add to this thread, for those of you who have been following, that the issues in my marriage went beyond just trying to make a mixed faith marriage work.
They all do. Faith awakening just exacerbates the existing problems. A recent aunt and uncle just decided to separate after 30 years. Everyone’s upset but it seems like a good decision if they’re both not happy. Life is too short.

Hang in there. Protect yourself. Don’t feel guilty.
Thanks RR! I'm doing Ok with everything so far, protecting myself, and I know this is for the best path for both her and I. Neither one of us is happy.

You're right, she tends to blame my faith transition for the reason we reached this point, and there is definitely truth to that. It just doesn't provide the entire context of the issues in the marriage, though. Those issues were there before any of my faith transition. Becoming aware of the issues and trying to address them created the friction that we just couldn't resolve.

I remember a few years ago in a Stake Conference, the Stake President talking about how many married couples were divorcing when they reached the point where kids had left the house or almost all kids had left. Marrying early, pressure to marry quickly after dating before you "sin", pressure to have kids early, and overall because of these pressures not focusing enough on exploring what you each want in a relationship or even having more time early on to build your relationship better, has created far too many marriages that are too foundationally "church" based. Taking away this foundational component of a marriage built this way when one spouse's faith transitions, reveals how weak and fragile the real relationship is without the religious beliefs to hold it together.

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Linked
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Linked » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:53 pm

It's good to hear from you again DT. It sounds like you are in the middle of the really tough stuff, keep your head up and take it one day at a time. Hopefully you are able to take some comfort in moving toward a resolution, even if it may be one you had once hoped to avoid.
Deepthinker wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:06 am
I remember a few years ago in a Stake Conference, the Stake President talking about how many married couples were divorcing when they reached the point where kids had left the house or almost all kids had left. Marrying early, pressure to marry quickly after dating before you "sin", pressure to have kids early, and overall because of these pressures not focusing enough on exploring what you each want in a relationship or even having more time early on to build your relationship better, has created far too many marriages that are too foundationally "church" based. Taking away this foundational component of a marriage built this way when one spouse's faith transitions, reveals how weak and fragile the real relationship is without the religious beliefs to hold it together.
That is interesting the Stake President mentioned that. The church certainly follows a recipe to get people married regardless of compatibility. Without the religious foundation there are two orthogonal efforts, one to get everyone back to the religious foundation and one to address the weakness and fragility of the relationship. The 2 efforts don't really support each other which can add friction to the already fragile relationship.

TBM spouse truly feels that if Disaffected spouse would just come back to church that would solve the relationship issues. That hurts the Disaffected spouse and hampers addressing anything else. Disaffected spouse looks past the church option and sees other relationship issues and feels that if those were addressed then the relationship might be salvaged. Looking past the church option hurts TBM spouse, and pointing out the other relationship issues can discourage/scare the TBM spouse.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:34 pm

Linked wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:53 pm
It's good to hear from you again DT. It sounds like you are in the middle of the really tough stuff, keep your head up and take it one day at a time. Hopefully you are able to take some comfort in moving toward a resolution, even if it may be one you had once hoped to avoid.
Deepthinker wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:06 am
I remember a few years ago in a Stake Conference, the Stake President talking about how many married couples were divorcing when they reached the point where kids had left the house or almost all kids had left. Marrying early, pressure to marry quickly after dating before you "sin", pressure to have kids early, and overall because of these pressures not focusing enough on exploring what you each want in a relationship or even having more time early on to build your relationship better, has created far too many marriages that are too foundationally "church" based. Taking away this foundational component of a marriage built this way when one spouse's faith transitions, reveals how weak and fragile the real relationship is without the religious beliefs to hold it together.
That is interesting the Stake President mentioned that. The church certainly follows a recipe to get people married regardless of compatibility. Without the religious foundation there are two orthogonal efforts, one to get everyone back to the religious foundation and one to address the weakness and fragility of the relationship. The 2 efforts don't really support each other which can add friction to the already fragile relationship.

TBM spouse truly feels that if Disaffected spouse would just come back to church that would solve the relationship issues. That hurts the Disaffected spouse and hampers addressing anything else. Disaffected spouse looks past the church option and sees other relationship issues and feels that if those were addressed then the relationship might be salvaged. Looking past the church option hurts TBM spouse, and pointing out the other relationship issues can discourage/scare the TBM spouse.
Thank you Linked! I do find some level of comfort with an actual direction now. Felt like I was in limbo mode for too long.

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Deepthinker
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Deepthinker » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:52 pm

Quick update: After a very long, draining day of mediation last month, we came to an agreement on things. The divorce will be finalized on May 1, so I'm looking at my own place to rent for now. Plenty of mixed emotions still, but I do know this is the right decision.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Red Ryder » Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:32 pm

Deepthinker wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:52 pm
Quick update: After a very long, draining day of mediation last month, we came to an agreement on things. The divorce will be finalized on May 1, so I'm looking at my own place to rent for now. Plenty of mixed emotions still, but I do know this is the right decision.
Congratulations on the step forward.

I can’t exactly recall who said “I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it.”

But there’s truth in that couplet.
“I switched baristas” —Lady Gaga

Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Linked
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Re: Mental and Emotional Exhaustion

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:01 pm

Deepthinker wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:52 pm
Quick update: After a very long, draining day of mediation last month, we came to an agreement on things. The divorce will be finalized on May 1, so I'm looking at my own place to rent for now. Plenty of mixed emotions still, but I do know this is the right decision.
Thanks for the update, sounds like things are moving.

The only way is through - UnderArmor

Take it one day at a time and hopefully in a few weeks/months you will find new grooves and some happiness.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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