Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Obadiah_Dogberry
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Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Obadiah_Dogberry » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:27 pm

Tomorrow is my 16 year wedding anniversary and I'm not sure how to do it.

DW told me earlier this week that she loves me, but doesn't like me much of the time. She has a hard time being happy around me and genuinely showing that she thinks I am a good guy. I know I haven't been perfect in my transition away from Mormonism (there is no how to manual for this and I've stepped on a few mines), but I am loving, kind, supportive, good, and fun. I am a good father and a loving husband. I provide very well financially for my family (nanny, cleaner, vacations, new cars, nice house, etc, etc).

But this isn't enough. The main problem is she knows I think Mormonism is bullshit and she just can't get past it. She says she is fine with my unbelief, but I think having a skeptic sitting right beside you in life when you believe in a religion that doesn't stand up under any sort of scrutiny is pretty tough. I ruin Mormonism for her and she feels like she needs Mormonism.

I am not great at unconditional happiness in our marriage. It's hard for me to be "into" our marriage when I know she loathes me part of the time. I take runs at it, but it's hard to keep it up.

So how do I make it through tomorrow? How do I celebrate a failing marriage? I'm wanting to dig deep and see our marriage in a positive way but it's really hard sometimes.....

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Silver Girl
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Silver Girl » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:39 am

It sounds like she does recognize and appreciate the good person you are, but maybe her identity as a Mormon woman who 'has it all' is being eroded and she may not yet have another identity to substitute. The formula for women in the church is to have all the things you mentioned, and to be able to sit in SM each week as the perfect, well-off couple with an up & coming PH guy at the helm I don't ascribe to this - but I firmly believe that's how it is in the church. Women do not have much of a community outside of the church - that's where their status is, & that's their identify.

Maybe you need to shift the center of her focal point to the two of you as a couple and to the family you've created. The church convinces everyone that life revolves around that flipping corporation and members' identities are defined by callings, tithing, status in the church and looking like the perfect family every week.

I would give her the type of anniversary celebration you would have given her at any other time in the marriage. Act like the church craziness doesn't even exist - don't even discuss the church. If she tries to mention it, just smile and shift the focus "It's great to be enjoying a nice dinner and evening together - we should do this more often. You look beautiful - I love you." Make the anniversary special. When you compliment her, focus on the things she is as an individual and what she means to you.

Good luck. I have no idea if any of the above makes sense - it's what came to me as I read your post.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:19 pm

I feel your pain OD.

The resentment seeps in deep and starts to rot from the inside. Things look fabulous on the outside but feel vacant, hollow, and empty on the inside. Like the temple. :D

I haven't talked openly about my situation. We are six weeks into counseling and while things are moving slow, I'm realizing just how far the divide is. Essentially it's the same as you've written.

At some point it just gets old and life starts to feel really short. Short enough to start thinking about greener grass over a different septic tank.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:27 pm

Silver Girl wrote:I would give her the type of anniversary celebration you would have given her at any other time in the marriage. Act like the church craziness doesn't even exist - don't even discuss the church. If she tries to mention it, just smile and shift the focus "It's great to be enjoying a nice dinner and evening together - we should do this more often. You look beautiful - I love you." Make the anniversary special. When you compliment her, focus on the things she is as an individual and what she means to you.
This works in the short term but long term creates resentment especially when it doesn't feel reciprocated. Mormonism creates an identity focused on Mormonism. Once that void is created by unbelief, nothing can substitute or replace it.

What if she wants a priesthood holder? What are you going to do when you can't provide that anymore?

Maybe the best advice is to just get divorced and find someone else? I dunno.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Obadiah_Dogberry
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Obadiah_Dogberry » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:44 pm

Thanks for all of your replies. So for so good today. I took that day off work and ran out this morning while she was sleeping and got her breakfast and flowers. Couples massage and lunch.

It is time for us to go back to counselling. I looked up, "How do you know when it's time to divorce" online the other day and it made me realize that I have more to give and I need to own some of this also. I'm not ready for divorce but I do think about it lots....

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alas
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by alas » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:40 pm

Since I am late to this discussion and you already have plans for today, let me make a more long term suggestion for saving the marriage. What my husband and I did when we no longer had religion as the big thing in common was to find something else in common. So, now he goes to church, but he has never been great at making the kind of friends to do social things with. So we need a different social group. Besides, the church is a terrible place to find friends to do social things with is one partner in the marriage is a persona non grata. So, we found a new fun hobby and joined a club of people to do our hobby with. This may cost some money for equipment and you will have to use some creativity to figure out what she would enjoy. It doesn't matter so much if you really love said hobby, because it will be more enjoyable to you than church. But it is important that your wife enjoy it enough to want to go to club meetings and find friends there.

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Deepthinker
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Deepthinker » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:21 am

I’ve been in a dark place before as I considered my own marriage over the last few years. I’ve even Googled the same search you did. I don’t know your entire situation, so without that my thoughts about how I’ve tried to work through things may not work for you.

I would second alas and say that you should find some things you’re both interested in doing together. Focus on common interests and values. My wife and I started running together every Saturday morning since this last summer. Sometimes we run 10 miles together, just the two of us. We train for and run races together. We also go to the gym together, we’ve been doing that for several years. We share some music interests, and since we’re always looking for a new running playlist we talk about songs we like on our list. We watch movies, go on hikes, go shopping together, etc.

One of the things I’ve focused on the last year is being engaged in her life, sometimes as simple as asking how her day went, and as intense as finding out more about her deepest hopes and desires. I’ve tried to really show her how much I love her and even though I no longer believe in things like a historical BoM, that my faith transition hasn’t affected my love for her.

I’ve also thought about writing up my marriage vows and reading it to her in one of the next anniversaries we celebrate. Something separate from the temple, something specifically from me and not words said by a sealer.

For me, it didn’t happen overnight, but I finally just committed myself to her and to our relationship. I wanted it, I needed it, and I was going to try everything I can to fight for her. Luckily, she has been responding, and I feel like we’re getting there.

I hope you can do the same. I feel like these important relationships are worth fighting for.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:55 pm

My DW went through a similar situation. She hit he wall a few times during my disillusionment and eventual admission that I didn't believe it anymore. She made statements like "This is not what I/we signed up for!", "I just can't process this." and "I just don't know who you are anymore." What helped her was that she could see I was also hurting and very sincere. She could see the pain I was going through with my cogdis and I respected her desire that I not talk about it. I showed her I was more dedicated a companion and husband than ever and when she actually saw our marriage getting better than it ever had been she had hope in a good future. This ultimately gave her hope and even evidence to see there could be happiness postmo. Seeing other couples and friends that were out and still happy and successful also gave her hope. It was tough, but things on her shelf eventually grew heavy enough that she saw the light.

I don't know how this helps you, but I can see you care and are making an effort. It's a really hard road to travel and I can tell you I had many thoughts of divorce or walking away from all of it, but my love for my wife mattered more than my own pride or feelings. From my first marriage I know what it feels like to be the TBM while the other half walks away; even worse, cheats on you, deceives and drags your kids out of it. I think this gave me the perspective I needed to empathize with my DW as she saw me falling away from it and so I was more patient with her because I knew that pain.
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MrsGeorgeMiller
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by MrsGeorgeMiller » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:02 pm

George and I have a ritual every year for our anniversary. We go out to eat, take off our wedding rings, and place them on the table between us. We then have an open and Frank discussion about our marriage. What we like, what we don't like. What we love about our partner and what we wish they'd change. We then discuss each of them and try to resolve the issues, or at the very least come up with a plan to tackle them, and we make new vows to one another about what we will change, what we will do, and what we will continue to do. We then ask each other if we want to be married for another year. If the answer is yes, then you pick up the ring and put it back on. So far, the answer has always been yes (thank god).

I have grown to love our annual "check up." It makes it so we can't harbor any dislikes or grudges for long, and the frank openness has made it easier for us to be open about other things that pop up throughout the year. Criticism, when constructive and in a loving environment, can be a wonderful tool. It sounds like the two of you need to have some of these heartfelt talks, and a counselor can be a wonderful moderator to hold space for the two of you. No marriage is perfect, and marriages evolve as much as people do. The George and I of our early married years would not recognize the two of us today. We've both changed a lot, and our marriage has too. Our latest permutation is our strongest yet. I hope the two of you can find a way to mutual happiness, however that may be. You both deserve joy!
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Newme
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Newme » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:26 pm

MrsGeorgeMiller wrote:George and I have a ritual every year for our anniversary. We go out to eat, take off our wedding rings, and place them on the table between us. We then have an open and Frank discussion about our marriage. What we like, what we don't like. What we love about our partner and what we wish they'd change. We then discuss each of them and try to resolve the issues, or at the very least come up with a plan to tackle them, and we make new vows to one another about what we will change, what we will do, and what we will continue to do. We then ask each other if we want to be married for another year. If the answer is yes, then you pick up the ring and put it back on. So far, the answer has always been yes (thank god).

I have grown to love our annual "check up." It makes it so we can't harbor any dislikes or grudges for long, and the frank openness has made it easier for us to be open about other things that pop up throughout the year. Criticism, when constructive and in a loving environment, can be a wonderful tool. It sounds like the two of you need to have some of these heartfelt talks, and a counselor can be a wonderful moderator to hold space for the two of you. No marriage is perfect, and marriages evolve as much as people do. The George and I of our early married years would not recognize the two of us today. We've both changed a lot, and our marriage has too. Our latest permutation is our strongest yet. I hope the two of you can find a way to mutual happiness, however that may be. You both deserve joy!
Great idea!

Korihor
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Re: Anniversary tomorrow - It's going to be tough

Post by Korihor » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:22 pm

Newme wrote:
MrsGeorgeMiller wrote:George and I have a ritual every year for our anniversary. We go out to eat, take off our wedding rings, and place them on the table between us. We then have an open and Frank discussion about our marriage. What we like, what we don't like. What we love about our partner and what we wish they'd change. We then discuss each of them and try to resolve the issues, or at the very least come up with a plan to tackle them, and we make new vows to one another about what we will change, what we will do, and what we will continue to do. We then ask each other if we want to be married for another year. If the answer is yes, then you pick up the ring and put it back on. So far, the answer has always been yes (thank god).

I have grown to love our annual "check up." It makes it so we can't harbor any dislikes or grudges for long, and the frank openness has made it easier for us to be open about other things that pop up throughout the year. Criticism, when constructive and in a loving environment, can be a wonderful tool. It sounds like the two of you need to have some of these heartfelt talks, and a counselor can be a wonderful moderator to hold space for the two of you. No marriage is perfect, and marriages evolve as much as people do. The George and I of our early married years would not recognize the two of us today. We've both changed a lot, and our marriage has too. Our latest permutation is our strongest yet. I hope the two of you can find a way to mutual happiness, however that may be. You both deserve joy!
Great idea!
I like this too, maybe I'll do something similar with Mrs Kori
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