My mom

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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LSOF
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My mom

Post by LSOF » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:15 pm

The last few years have driven her mental. She is now antivax and afraid of "gender ideology". I tried to disabuse her of these lies, but she clung tightly to them. It's personal for me, as I am trans myself. She reacted with extreme anger to my insistence upon being correctly addressed. The shooting in Colorado has only made the situation worse.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

dogbite
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Re: My mom

Post by dogbite » Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:37 am

There is a scene in On a Sunbeam. That's a genderqueer sci-fi comic about a space construction crew. You can read the whole thing on-line for free or buy it at most bookstores.

https://www.onasunbeam.com/

In roughly the middle of Chapter 13, they're leaving a job that went bad and this scene crystallized the issue of pronouns for me.

All of you have been rude, insubordinate, and just plain shits since I got here. I don't deserve this!

I think you're forgetting a key part of this puzzle. I'll admit that I have, at times, been slightly jerkish to you. But only for excellent reasons.

This is ridiculous.

No way, you stay right here and listen to me. Do you remember the night you showed up here?

Yes, So?

We were pissed when you showed up. Char was gone and we were broken. And we could've just taken that out on you.
But we didn't You showed up and Alma make you dinner. We made you a bed, even played cards together.

And we TOLD you that Ell didn't talk, we told your their pronouns.

And you IGNORED us.

I don't need to know that stuff! This is a job, none of that is important.

No. No way. You don't get to decide that . You don't get to decide what's important for US. You can choose for yourself but no one else.

When you chose not to respect us, we chose not to respect you. The fact that you expect people you shit on to treat you nicely shows just how delusional you are.

I can't believe this. So I screwed up some words. You act like I'm a monster!

Wow... You, you really don't it, do you? Have you even considered that something that's trivial to you could mean ... SO much more to someone else?

You don't get to take the easy road out and just respect the parts of people that you recognize.

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Linked
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Re: My mom

Post by Linked » Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:53 am

I'm sorry your mom can't/won't understand, accept, and love you. That's so hard.

How has the shooting in Colorado made it worse? Is she celebrating it? I would think that such an obviously terrible act would get bigots to rethink their bigotry rather than double down.

On a personal note, I'm glad to see you posting again, I have always enjoyed your comments.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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LSOF
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Re: My mom

Post by LSOF » Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:17 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:53 am
I'm sorry your mom can't/won't understand, accept, and love you. That's so hard.

How has the shooting in Colorado made it worse? Is she celebrating it? I would think that such an obviously terrible act would get bigots to rethink their bigotry rather than double down.

On a personal note, I'm glad to see you posting again, I have always enjoyed your comments.
She has not celebrated it herself, but I've seen the Matt Walsh/Steven Crowder/Chaya Raichik set celebrating it and agitating for more. What made it worse for me was learning that the shooter is Mormon, in a state bordering mine. I have firmly resolved, moreover, to bring her into therapy with me.

Thank you for the welcome back. :)
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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Hagoth
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Re: My mom

Post by Hagoth » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:59 am

Linked wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:53 am
On a personal note, I'm glad to see you posting again, I have always enjoyed your comments.
Me too!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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LSOF
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Re: My mom

Post by LSOF » Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:06 pm

I put my therapist in contact with my mom, and I've learned that therapists in general get her angry.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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Linked
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Re: My mom

Post by Linked » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:20 am

LSOF wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:06 pm
I put my therapist in contact with my mom, and I've learned that therapists in general get her angry.
Did your mom speak with the therapist, or just get angry at the thought of it?

I tried to bring my DW to therapy with me to work through the issues related to my faith transition and discovered the same thing for her. After a few sessions ended with her miserable and not speaking with me for days I gave it up. Unfortunately one can't force another to be introspective.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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alas
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Re: My mom

Post by alas » Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:41 am

LSOF wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:06 pm
I put my therapist in contact with my mom, and I've learned that therapists in general get her angry.
The church was very anti any psychology, counseling, or professional help with mental health issues for years. The older generation will not let go of that indoctrination easily. Getting professional help was very dangerous because the counselor would seduce you away from your belief in God, bla bla bla. It took years for the church to even accept that a Mormon therapist might be safe for your testimony and it still really distrusts nonMormon counseling. I mean, what other occupation did the church set up a special agency for? LDS Family Services is based on the idea that mental health therapy is dangerous to your testimony. Imagine if they thought going to a nonMormon dentist would destroy your testimony.

After all, it was psychology that first started saying that homosexual feelings are inborn. And the “founder of psychology himself, good ol’ Freud had some bad things to say about religion. So, psychology is evil.

Now the far right is undermining people’s trust in medical doctors too. Stupid far right. So far right they are wrong.

But none of that helps you deal with her. Usually having a LGBT+ child helps parents accept that being LGBT isn’t horrible, but often it takes time. I have a niece that fought with her mom over it to the point that she cut off contact for 10 years, until her mom came around a bit, then accepted it when they adopted a baby, because as she said, a grandchild is irresistible. My in laws came around when my daughter came out. So, usually live wins in the end.

So, hang in there and keep letting your mom know who you are. If it gets too bad, protect yourself by cutting off contact as long as you need to. But, just remember that what Dumbledoor said about love being the oldest kind of magic there is. Love usually wins in the end. Keep loving her and give her time, but keep reminding her about who you really are until she can accept it.

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LSOF
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Re: My mom

Post by LSOF » Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:42 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:20 am
LSOF wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:06 pm
I put my therapist in contact with my mom, and I've learned that therapists in general get her angry.
Did your mom speak with the therapist, or just get angry at the thought of it?

I tried to bring my DW to therapy with me to work through the issues related to my faith transition and discovered the same thing for her. After a few sessions ended with her miserable and not speaking with me for days I gave it up. Unfortunately one can't force another to be introspective.
She did respond, saying in part that therapists in general get her angry. I learned this from my therapist, relaying their conversation.

I'm just trying to get my mom to understand my point of view and not dismiss it because she thinks I'm inferior to her, and maybe disabuse her of all the anti-trans defamation she believes.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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Linked
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Re: My mom

Post by Linked » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:58 pm

LSOF wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:42 pm
She did respond, saying in part that therapists in general get her angry. I learned this from my therapist, relaying their conversation.

I'm just trying to get my mom to understand my point of view and not dismiss it because she thinks I'm inferior to her, and maybe disabuse her of all the anti-trans defamation she believes.
I don't know if the "just" fits there, haha

What you want is so fair and should be the bare minimum you get from your mom. I'm sorry she isn't giving that to you.

There is a powerful and required arrogance in true belief. The mormon church instills it in members by encouraging saying "I know" instead of "I believe" and telling each other that the church is True and using leading questions in their literature and a million other things. And it hurts deeply when that arrogance is turned at you within your most important relationships.

Your mom's willingness to talk with the therapist in spite of her anger could be a sign of hope.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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