How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Vlad the Emailer
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How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Vlad the Emailer » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:31 am

I have no problem admitting that the little misses and I have far more than just church issues to disagree about. But in church yesterday I sat with my usual glum, I can't believe I'm still doing this" look on my face. No one told me, DW wasn't even there, she is often in bed with health problems and I (not so often, but sometimes) do my duty to her by taking our two kids (both teens) to church. But I know the look was there because that was how I felt and I couldn't shake that feeling.

I don't want to have that look on my face and I actually sit and chastise myself. I remind myself that all around me are great people, most of which would drop everything to help if my family needed them. And the messages aren't bad, they're basically good. Some of the things said are TBM BS, of course, but the end product (at least as far as the kid part goes) in Mormonism is usually good, moral, clean young people.

DW brought up divorce again last night. "Just not a marriage anymore", and all that usual stuff. Again, there's other crap on the table, but "you stole my eternal marriage" is always the great big Book of Mormon mastodon in the room.

But again, back at church I sat wondering why I can't look on the bright side and make the best of it so I/we can be at least somewhat happy with where we are in our relationship. Yet at the same time I know that even if I can do that, I still can't give them money and go back to their temple, so that's another bridge to cross. But any insight on how you deal with being an unbelieving, yet happily (at least on some level) participating Mormon, would be very appreciated! Thanks!
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous

Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut

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document
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by document » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:48 am

I've thought of this often myself.

If it is something we believe in, enjoy, or want to be a part of, then it becomes quite easy to focus on the positive and disregard the negative. When I was a teenager I really didn't like going to church, I didn't like the people and I didn't like spending Sunday in a tie. I found every single reason to hate it and ignored the good things that it brought to my life.

When I was in my 20s I really liked going to church because I believed it. During that period of time I focused intensely on the positive aspects of church while ignoring the negative side effects that it had on my life.

When I was in my late 20s I stopped believing and all of a sudden church became a dirge again. I could no longer focus on the positive aspects and constantly focused upon the negative.

I think this is a natural feeling and something that all of us go through. It is a way for us to convince ourselves that when we go with another option in life, we are fully justified in that decision. That goes from the simple (I wanted a new computer and while I wouldn't admit that, I found every reason why my decent laptop was just the most horrible thing in the world) to the more complex (seeing my marriage deteriorate through negativity when in reality we were both looking for another situation).

I think in those cases, we have made up the decision, we are just waiting for the internal justification to catch up.

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Red Ryder
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:09 pm

document wrote:I think in those cases, we have made up the decision, we are just waiting for the internal justification to catch up.

This is so true and an honest evaluation of yourself and your marriage may reveal this.

I totally feel your pain and know that glum look all to well. I'm mostly functional during Sacrament meeting because I can sit with the kids and play games or doodle and put my arm around the wife and snuggle while tuning out the speakers. No problems for the first hour. The second hour (with the wife in SS) has been miserable and the internet on my phone a life saver. Third hour I either sit in the car or go for a long drive. That's how I survive being a 3 hour a week mormon. I don't have a calling which limits my participation levels.

You're not really asking for help to endure to the end here though. You're asking how you stay married when the church is/was the glue in your marriage and now it's not. The best advice I can give is to find a therapist and work like hell to find happiness together with your wife. Therapy will also help you determine if divorce is the right answer which it might just be. We've been going for almost 6 months now and divorce has been pulled off the table. We've learned to find appreciation and love for each other again. It was missing for so long and left us empty and in the cycle of constant roommate status.

Fortunately things are really good right now and we have a new tool box full of ways to maintain a strong emotional and physical connection. Unfortunately though with the church issues it seems another D word has taken it's place. Disappointment. Disappointment has crept in when I don't follow the mormon script or make comments about church.

We're just starting to work through this last phase. The therapist is telling us that disappointment doesn't always go away but that we have to redefine expectations and how we will choose to react when they are not met. For us, church will always be the biggest disappointment variable because of my faith transition. The tool for this is that I have to turn towards her and let her vent, then apologize for disappointing her and recognize that she's hurt. I don't have to solve her disappointment, just show empathy and provide comfort. Over time, the disappointment levels will fade. I'm not fully convinced though within Mormonism. The church never let's any scab heal.

Last thing to remember is that divorce is an acceptable option too. It's probably the more difficult option in the short term and most people survive and say they are better off. There's a couple in my ward that split last year and he stayed in his house in the ward. He just remarried and is happier than he ever was. You both can be too if that's the direction you choose.

If your interested, pm me for my number and I'm happy to talk about the therapy structure. It's been fairly simple ideas and tools that boost communication and emotional intimacy. Stuff found on YouTube like the Gottman's, etc.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Vlad the Emailer
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Vlad the Emailer » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:13 am

document wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:48 am
I think this is a natural feeling and something that all of us go through. It is a way for us to convince ourselves that when we go with another option in life, we are fully justified in that decision. That goes from the simple (I wanted a new computer and while I wouldn't admit that, I found every reason why my decent laptop was just the most horrible thing in the world) to the more complex (seeing my marriage deteriorate through negativity when in reality we were both looking for another situation).

I think in those cases, we have made up the decision, we are just waiting for the internal justification to catch up.
Great observation, document. I think that is really where I am in the relationship. I think DW is less so, but she is so freaked out by my disaffection that that trumps even her otherwise considerable devotion to me. I, on the other hand, would frankly like a different situation. My problem is that I was 32 when we married and I was woefully unsuccessful with relationships before that, so I have incredibly low confidence in how that issue would play out if I were single again. In addition, there has been a lot of instability in my job/career situation, and divorce adds a lot more instability, so that doesn't help.

Anyway, thanks to you and RR for fantastic comments and advice.

RR, I may take you up on that offer to have a discussion. DW and I haven't had the counselor talk lately (she has rejected the idea in the past), but it's probably time for that to come up again.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous

Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut

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Give It Time
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Give It Time » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:20 pm

This may seem trite, but I chose my screen name for a reason. Basically, there will just come a time that you realize your situation has advantages. For instance, I'm pretty inactive. I've set some boundaries with the local leadership.

Now, when I do any kind of service, any kind of thoughtful thing, they KNOW it isn't wrapped up in the church's agenda. It comes from me, from my heart, because it's what I want to do.


Another thing I did is I took an online comedy class through my local community college. A class like that is really terrific in training you to turn a situation on its head and looking at it with new eyes.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Newme
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Newme » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:06 pm

Vlad the Emailer wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:31 am
I don't want to have that look on my face and I actually sit and chastise myself. I remind myself that all around me are great people, most of which would drop everything to help if my family needed them. And the messages aren't bad, they're basically good. Some of the things said are TBM BS, of course, but the end product (at least as far as the kid part goes) in Mormonism is usually good, moral, clean young people.

DW brought up divorce again last night. "Just not a marriage anymore", and all that usual stuff. Again, there's other crap on the table, but "you stole my eternal marriage" is always the great big Book of Mormon mastodon in the room.

But again, back at church I sat wondering why I can't look on the bright side and make the best of it so I/we can be at least somewhat happy with where we are in our relationship. Yet at the same time I know that even if I can do that, I still can't give them money and go back to their temple, so that's another bridge to cross. But any insight on how you deal with being an unbelieving, yet happily (at least on some level) participating Mormon, would be very appreciated! Thanks!
The only thing I can offer in terms of marital struggles is empathy and to let you know you're not alone, though it can definitely feel otherwise.

As RR mentioned, I too, use distractions and don't go to the 3rd hour. I try to focus on connecting with people - to see how they are - and so many are so eager to tell me. I imagine there are some widows and widowers who rarely speak to others - maybe just Sundays. I give them hugs or hand shakes and focus on what's new in their lives - or ask them about interest they've told me about before. I love gospel principles because it's a smaller group and we each talk more - and about the real heart of issues, not so much the trivia of which interpretation to which doctrine.

One thing that has helped me is redefining gospel terms - which is good for me to review, so thanks for inspiring me to look at my list again. When I've really focused on reinterpreting words, it has turned some otherwise annoying church meetings/lessons into inspiring experiences. Once, it even brought tears to my eyes - I was so moved. My TBM sister looked at me like I was crazy with tears for a lesson that didn't seem so significant. :)

Anointed: been blessed, especially by God
Apostate: Name calling, ad-hominem attack used by those unaware they’re in a cult
Baptism: Beautiful symbolic ritual to remind us of our spiritual and physical births, and rebirths
Celestial: Christ-like
Choose The Right: Do God’s will above all
Commandments: scripture/socially learned… and spiritual personal circumstantial
Covenants with God: Covenants with LOVE
Family: Those we love and are connected with – ultimately the entire world
Jesus Christ: Christ is not Jesus’ last name, but what he became and encouraged us to follow him and become
Kingdom of God: Spiritual connection with God within us
Last Days: Heaven’s Reward Fallacy; pretending that Jesus will save us externally, when God saves us internally
Lord’s Side or not: All-or-Nothing thinking is “you’re either on the Lord’s side or you’re not.” Truth is we’re mixed, depending on the circumstances.
Love/Charity: Appreciating what is while striving for what is best – through trial and error – active faith.
Marriage: Between a man and a woman, like a blueprint of intent to grow together in relating. A relat ionship is as good as the relating.
Priesthood: Godly power, which all have to some degree
Repent: Correct one’s thinking and related emotions and behavior – turning to God
Sin/Evil: Incorrect thought and related e-motions & behavior (evil: persistent attempt to shift responsibility and make others pay/suffer).
Salvation: healed by correcting one’s thinking, good spirit - not allowing oneself to be damnned/held back from learning
Satan/Adversary: unhealed part of us, incorrect thinking that ultimately causes suffering
Scriptures: Ancient writings of imperfect people which imperfect religious leaders have selected and changed
Spirit: Intuitive sense that helps guide us – goal is to make subconscious more conscious through prayer and meditation
Temple: Body, mind and soul – place to connect spiritually
Tithing: 1/10 of INCREASE (after your own basic needs are met), sometimes used by religious leaders to be rich, but is significantly intended for the poor (Deut 14:29-29)
Veil: Subjectively limited beliefs we are all subject to
Word of Wisdom: Spirit of wise choices in regards to health
Word: Spiritual/symbolic energy

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Vlad the Emailer
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Vlad the Emailer » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:33 am

Thanks NewMe.

I really like your NOMish lexicon. Particularly this:
Spirit: Intuitive sense that helps guide us – goal is to make subconscious more conscious through prayer and meditation
I understand that some would argue that this subconscious voice ultimately is from
God, but regardless, I like how this explains the universality of "the influence of the spirit".
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous

Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut

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Enoch Witty
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Enoch Witty » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:34 am

Newme wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:06 pm
One thing that has helped me is redefining gospel terms - which is good for me to review, so thanks for inspiring me to look at my list again. When I've really focused on reinterpreting words, it has turned some otherwise annoying church meetings/lessons into inspiring experiences. Once, it even brought tears to my eyes - I was so moved. My TBM sister looked at me like I was crazy with tears for a lesson that didn't seem so significant. :)
I really like this! I've added a new note to my notebook called "Gospel Topic Redefinitions." A fun little project!

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Newme
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Newme » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:48 am

Vlad the Emailer wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:33 am
Thanks NewMe.

I really like your NOMish lexicon. Particularly this:
Spirit: Intuitive sense that helps guide us – goal is to make subconscious more conscious through prayer and meditation
I understand that some would argue that this subconscious voice ultimately is from
God, but regardless, I like how this explains the universality of "the influence of the spirit".
Thanks, Vlad.

Growing up in the church, many of us were led to believe that Mormonism had a monopoly on the spirit, and that it could only be felt about church-related matters, but many of us have come to realize that's not true.

I do believe that the subconscious is somehow connected spiritually, but I don't know about the details.

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Newme
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Newme » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:50 am

Enoch Witty wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:34 am
Newme wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:06 pm
One thing that has helped me is redefining gospel terms - which is good for me to review, so thanks for inspiring me to look at my list again. When I've really focused on reinterpreting words, it has turned some otherwise annoying church meetings/lessons into inspiring experiences. Once, it even brought tears to my eyes - I was so moved. My TBM sister looked at me like I was crazy with tears for a lesson that didn't seem so significant. :)
I really like this! I've added a new note to my notebook called "Gospel Topic Redefinitions." A fun little project!
Thanks. I know about projects like that - I've got a few too. :)
It's good to know if it helps others as it's helped me. Maybe I'll begin a new thread, as suggested.

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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Deepthinker » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:27 pm

Vlad the Emailer wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:33 am
Thanks NewMe.

I really like your NOMish lexicon. Particularly this:
Spirit: Intuitive sense that helps guide us – goal is to make subconscious more conscious through prayer and meditation
I understand that some would argue that this subconscious voice ultimately is from
God, but regardless, I like how this explains the universality of "the influence of the spirit".
Yes, I too have redefined Mormon terms to fit the way I view things since transitioning. It does help to send what people say through that filter. Of course, I've always tried to focus on the positive, just look at my avatar. :)

I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time with your wife. That might be the real issue for you trying to focus on the bright side. How do you reinterpret your wife bringing up divorce and telling you it is not a marriage anymore? That's tough.

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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by JustCurious » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:37 pm

Vlad the Emailer wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:31 am
I have no problem admitting that the little misses and I have far more than just church issues to disagree about. But in church yesterday I sat with my usual glum, I can't believe I'm still doing this" look on my face. No one told me, DW wasn't even there, she is often in bed with health problems and I (not so often, but sometimes) do my duty to her by taking our two kids (both teens) to church. But I know the look was there because that was how I felt and I couldn't shake that feeling.
Why so glum going to church with her? Yes, I know it's a fraud. But that doesn't matter. Go with her, and be enthusiastic. And happy. And go to church with the desire to help people that you find there.

So, the question then becomes, "how do I help the people there"?

For me, I use our own family mission statement to help guide me in trying to figure that out:

*******************
OUR FAMILY MISSION STATEMENT

1. We will defend and protect each person's right to create "Value" for themselves, through the pursuit of their own dreams, and to the extent that they also allow others to do the same.

2. We will encourage each person to create "Value" for society, not just for themselves, to the extent that the intended recipients of that "Value" judge it to be valuable.
******************

To implement this mission statement, go to church and observe those around you... what do the people around you judge to be "Valuable"? And, whatever it is, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others, help them to achieve it. That is the process and principle of helping your fellow man, and is independent of any church. You can conduct that mission cheerfully.

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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Meilingkie » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:32 am

Well it´s hard, and some days it´s harder than others.
What helps is shutting out the worldwide church.
Let go of the bloggernacle etc. etc. and concentrate on the here and now.
Particularly the here, your own ward, and your own family.

Why´s that?
Because you can influence the people around you and the situation you are in.
You can´t influence the people in the COB, they just put out policies which might be stupid, racist, sexist, or otherwise idiot.
It´s little use to rail against it (look who´s talking..........)
It did work in getting the sharp and painful edges off.
Then again, I never really locked myself off from the world. But turning the torrent into a trickle by building a dam did indeed help.
"Getting the Mormon out of the Church is easier than getting the Mormon out of the Ex-Mormon"

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redjay
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by redjay » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:03 am

This week I remembered a film I saw when I was a kid. All I remember there was a cult and there was this one guy who was there for the free food, everyone else fell for it, he was quite happy for the free food and knew the belief side was quakery.

I've told myself this week that I need to start appreciating the food, though there is a bit of me that wonders if I should clearly not sustain the brethren this general conf to make a stand - that would 'out me' and make things pretty awkward.

As for marriage I'm lucky Mrs RJ is pretty terrific - although she has asked for some rules e.g. sacrament attendance. But as others have said I would try couples' counselling - cheaper than divorce and if it can kickstart a marriage things can be better than ever.

I am assuming you've been around the podcasts such as mormon transitions, I'm pretty sure they have stuff on mixed marriages and communication. Also there's When Mormons Doubt: A Way to Save Relationships and Seek a Quality Life by Jon Ogden. That's a book for Orthodox and Unorthodox members so you and your wife could read it and discuss.



RJ
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.

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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by JustCurious » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:28 pm

redjay wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:03 am
This week I remembered a film I saw when I was a kid. All I remember there was a cult and there was this one guy who was there for the free food, everyone else fell for it, he was quite happy for the free food and knew the belief side was quakery.

I've told myself this week that I need to start appreciating the food,
I think this is really good. I love it.

Might I also suggest taking the analogy a little bit further?

Perhaps we can think of "food" as an allegory for other aspects of life-- such as our associations with each other, as well as our families. I think life in general is a precious gift. And it would be a mighty lonely world to be the only one in it. In other words, the importance that each one of us brings to each other through even simple associations is a gift to be cherished. And when someone chooses to have "off the wall" beliefs, we can just smile at them, love them, and not worry about the differences. And then maybe after a few years ask them how those beliefs worked out for them, and listen to their answers to that question, without judging them for it.

So the first step would be to appreciate each other, even if the other person seems to have a few wacko beliefs. Relax. Don't worry about it. If that means going to church with your wife, or husband, or brother, or sister, it's not a big deal. Go with them. And appreciate the opportunity to spend time with them, even if some of their beliefs are wacko. The opportunity to be with them is still precious. People are precious.

I think people are also quite entertaining at times. And the entertainment often begins at the point where their beliefs cross over into the ridiculous. Don't worry about it. Love them anyway. And then, as mentioned, maybe after a few years ask them how those beliefs worked out for them, and where it got them. Then listen to their answers to that question, without judging them for it. Perhaps both of you will learn something in the process.

Life is good. Life is precious. And the people we meet in life are all precious.

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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Newme » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:21 pm

JustCurious wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:28 pm
redjay wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:03 am
This week I remembered a film I saw when I was a kid. All I remember there was a cult and there was this one guy who was there for the free food, everyone else fell for it, he was quite happy for the free food and knew the belief side was quakery.

I've told myself this week that I need to start appreciating the food,
I think this is really good. I love it.

Might I also suggest taking the analogy a little bit further?

Perhaps we can think of "food" as an allegory for other aspects of life-- such as our associations with each other, as well as our families. I think life in general is a precious gift. And it would be a mighty lonely world to be the only one in it. In other words, the importance that each one of us brings to each other through even simple associations is a gift to be cherished. And when someone chooses to have "off the wall" beliefs, we can just smile at them, love them, and not worry about the differences. And then maybe after a few years ask them how those beliefs worked out for them, and listen to their answers to that question, without judging them for it.

So the first step would be to appreciate each other, even if the other person seems to have a few wacko beliefs. Relax. Don't worry about it. If that means going to church with your wife, or husband, or brother, or sister, it's not a big deal. Go with them. And appreciate the opportunity to spend time with them, even if some of their beliefs are wacko. The opportunity to be with them is still precious. People are precious.

I think people are also quite entertaining at times. And the entertainment often begins at the point where their beliefs cross over into the ridiculous. Don't worry about it. Love them anyway. And then, as mentioned, maybe after a few years ask them how those beliefs worked out for them, and where it got them. Then listen to their answers to that question, without judging them for it. Perhaps both of you will learn something in the process.

Life is good. Life is precious. And the people we meet in life are all precious.
Great advise, for me too. Thank you.

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redjay
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by redjay » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:25 am

[/quote]

I think this is really good. I love it.

Might I also suggest taking the analogy a little bit further?

Perhaps we can think of "food" as an allegory for other aspects of life-- such as our associations with each other, as well as our families. I think life in general is a precious gift. And it would be a mighty lonely world to be the only one in it. In other words, the importance that each one of us brings to each other through even simple associations is a gift to be cherished. And when someone chooses to have "off the wall" beliefs, we can just smile at them, love them, and not worry about the differences. And then maybe after a few years ask them how those beliefs worked out for them, and listen to their answers to that question, without judging them for it.

So the first step would be to appreciate each other, even if the other person seems to have a few wacko beliefs. Relax. Don't worry about it. If that means going to church with your wife, or husband, or brother, or sister, it's not a big deal. Go with them. And appreciate the opportunity to spend time with them, even if some of their beliefs are wacko. The opportunity to be with them is still precious. People are precious.

I think people are also quite entertaining at times. And the entertainment often begins at the point where their beliefs cross over into the ridiculous. Don't worry about it. Love them anyway. And then, as mentioned, maybe after a few years ask them how those beliefs worked out for them, and where it got them. Then listen to their answers to that question, without judging them for it. Perhaps both of you will learn something in the process.

Life is good. Life is precious. And the people we meet in life are all precious.
[/quote]

Very much so - I was conscious in Sacrament this week that I got to hold my wife's hand and have my arm around one of my children who is soon getting to that age where that kind of closeness might become uncomfortable, so precious moments for me.
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.

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Vlad the Emailer
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Vlad the Emailer » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:08 pm

Wow, great, great stuff here, from everyone! Justcurious, who could not love that so very positive, caring, and unselfish approach?? I can indeed learn from that and all of you.

When I consider all these things it is easy to get stuck on "there are only so many weekends and so many Sundays, I'd like to be spending that time how I would like rather than just how DW would like". And then there are the other peripheral issues like tithing and whether or not the sabbath is kept "holy". But, what you guys have said transcends all of it. Thanks so much, NOM family!! You're fantastic!
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest. - Anonymous

Say what you want about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying. - Kurt Vonnegut

JustCurious
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by JustCurious » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:25 pm

Everything's relative. And some things really are scary. For example, my Martial Arts instructor told me about the following conversation he overheard a few years ago, between a table full of Russians at the back of a restaurant in the Hollywood area of California (imagine a thick Russian accent here):
Giovanni family arrre bad-- zey killed hundrrreds. But Gotti, he's OK. I kinew John Gotti. He vas good man-- he only killed about five.
I was blown away with that. I think I'd want to be a million miles away from anything like that. So, I guess I need to moderate what I said. There are *some* associations that I would not want.

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Newme
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Re: How successfully do you focus on the bright side?

Post by Newme » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:57 am

Vlad the Emailer wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:08 pm
Wow, great, great stuff here, from everyone! Justcurious, who could not love that so very positive, caring, and unselfish approach?? I can indeed learn from that and all of you.

When I consider all these things it is easy to get stuck on "there are only so many weekends and so many Sundays, I'd like to be spending that time how I would like rather than just how DW would like". And then there are the other peripheral issues like tithing and whether or not the sabbath is kept "holy". But, what you guys have said transcends all of it. Thanks so much, NOM family!! You're fantastic!
Valid concerns, which I've had too.
The tithing one was one I felt strongly about & after many fights & tears, we compromised... I still go to church (at least most Sundays & the 1st 2 hours) & we direct our tithes to the poor who really deserve it.

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