Do you drink coffee?

[chesteridaho]

But it's an added benefit that when I am seen drinking it, no one is going to mistake me for a Mormon.

Love this.

Yes, my transition to coffee was originally more out of counter-culturalism. Now, I love it.

This made me laugh at myself. I began drinking coffee for the same counter-cultural reason. I had read enough advice that I started with some really sweet options and would sit in front of Starbucks or Dutch Bros, so everyone could see. Of course, no one cared. I was just being normal. I have always enjoyed very dark chocolate (90%>), but I still remember thinking that first coffee I had was horrible. I kept drinking it to be the rebel. Being a rebel with coffee as a 43-year old man is ridiculous, but at the time it felt liberating.

The idea that drinking coffee is a counter-cultural action illustrates how effective conformity to a social standard controls group mentality and social identity. Violating the WoW will likely put you on the outside of the social circle of a ward more quickly than abusing your spouse, embezzling from work, or many other much more destructive actions. The desire to conform to the group is often powerful enough for people to do things against their own moral standards. It was been liberating to get away from that. Coffee was one of my first steps.

[Red Ryder]

Why does it taste better in Canada?

[document]

Because it's like American coffee but with less guns and more polite?

[shadow]

Because a "hot drink" is always better when you're freezing your tail off.

[John G.]

My best guess is that he didn't what to pay for anyone else's coffee. That would be considered aiding and abetting the breaking of the WoW. Practically a WoW violation in itself!

[azflyer]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

[LSOF]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

Nobody said that there is.

[Can of Worms]

Every. Day. And I love it. I am more awake at the start of my day and it really helps get through dull meetings. The occasional latte is an amazing treat too! I make candy every year at Christmas and am contemplating making a dark chocolate coffee nib bark.... mmmmm......

[River Morgan]

No, I just grab my funnel and ... Well actually yes I do. My favorite is iced mocha latte, cold brewed. But if it is made from coffee beans I love it. When I was working, I would chew chocolate covered coffee beans before I started my presentations.

River

[Fifi de la Vergne]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

I'm glad you are here, azflyer. You have a slightly different perspective on things from most of us here, and I appreciate the balance.

[shadow]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with a person practicing their religion. It seems to me like there is some nuance here, though. It's one thing to bring up a restriction and then offer an alternative or secondary option. Like, "Hey. I don't eat pork. How about we also have some hamburgers." Or if someone worships under the incomprehensible religion of Vegetarianism, the could say, "Hey. I don't eat meat. How about we also have some veggie burgers."

Mentioning a restriction on a main course is perfectly understandable. I also don't have a problem with mormons saying that they don't drink coffee or alcohol. The distinction I see is that there are almost always alternative beverages available. It would be harder with a main food item for a meal. I see the need to preemptively proclaim the word of wisdom as lower. In the moment it's offered, it's fine to say no thanks and give an explanation if pushed.

In my specific example, I'm pretty sure they weren't planning on serving hot coffee to all of the seven year old soccer players with their after-game donut. The WOW proclamation had little practical purpose other than highlighting mormon peculiarity.

[shadow]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

I'm glad you are here, azflyer. You have a slightly different perspective on things from most of us here, and I appreciate the balance.

Agreed. Glad to see another familiar name.

[alas]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with a person practicing their religion. It seems to me like there is some nuance here, though. It's one thing to bring up a restriction and then offer an alternative or secondary option. Like, "Hey. I don't eat pork. How about we also have some hamburgers." Or if someone worships under the incomprehensible religion of Vegetarianism, the could say, "Hey. I don't eat meat. How about we also have some veggie burgers."

Mentioning a restriction on a main course is perfectly understandable. I also don't have a problem with mormons saying that they don't drink coffee or alcohol. The distinction I see is that there are almost always alternative beverages available. It would be harder with a main food item for a meal. I see the need to preemptively proclaim the word of wisdom as lower. In the moment it's offered, it's fine to say no thanks and give an explanation if pushed.

In my specific example, I'm pretty sure they weren't planning on serving hot coffee to all of the seven year old soccer players with their after-game donut. The WOW proclamation had little practical purpose other than highlighting mormon peculiarity.

The idea that there are always alternate beverages is not always true. When we were active duty military, we actually had several social activities where there was nothing but coffee, tea, and beer. It is terrible to have a big social gathering and there is nothing at all you can drink. Even when there were children at the activity, they had the standard, coffee, tea, and beer for adults and surgery junk for the kids. We had to get on the planning committees to be able to say, "please have something besides beer and coffee and tea. Water is fine even, just so there is something for those who do not drink coffee, tea, or beer." Then people looked at us, dumbfounded and asked, "like who doesn't drink coffee or tea?" Then we had to explain that many people do not drink coffee or tea and it isn't just kids and recovering alcoholics who don't drink alcohol. Then after explaining that Mormons are weird in not drinking coffee or tea, or anything alcololic, they would be totally dumbfounded and ask, "well, what DO you drink?" And we had to inform people that there is something in the world BESIDES coffee and tea that adults do drink. We got one group to agree to Coke and Diet Coke, and they ran out of Diet Coke in the first 15 minutes, but had plenty of beer left over at the end. We continued to push for more Diet Coke, and always there was resistance and always it was the first drink gone.

[alas]

Oh, and yes, I started to drink coffee trying to get a less chemical form of caffein than Diet Coke as a way to control ADD. But to make it less gaggy, I had to add cream and sweetener. What is the point of coffee if I still have to add artificial sweetener? I am in the group of, yes I like a little coffee with my cream and sugar, only being diabetic I can't have the sugar. So, I make 1/2 strength coffee, then add half and half and sweetener. That is less caffein than my diet Dr Pepper. 1/2 strength, then add 1/2 cup half and half. Yeah, otherwise it is just nasty. Oh, back up, start with blond roast hazelnut so it doesn't taste so much like burned chilli beans. Then make it with two times the water, then add your 1/2 cup half and half.

But I am getting used to the taste. It is less nasty than it was one year ago.

I can even take your measure for one cup and make 1 1/2 quarts of weak stuff and drink it over ice. I am not sure if you can call that coffee though. But only if it is blond roast.

But the funny thing is, my TBM husband gets irritated with me when the ADD is being a problem and I am bouncing off walls. He will actually order me to go have my coffee. He can see the difference it makes, and he figures coffee works better than soda because I have to drink so much soda.

[azflyer]

Let's mix it up a bit. Let's say one of the people is a Muslim, and the mom comes over and says she wants to put a team BBQ together and have some pulled pork sandwiches. How would you expect the Muslim person to react? Wouldn't it seem perfectly reasonable for the Muslim person to point out that he doesn't eat pork? I can certainly see how it would be awkward, but I don't see anything wrong with any person practicing their religious beliefs, even the dietary ones.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with a person practicing their religion. It seems to me like there is some nuance here, though. It's one thing to bring up a restriction and then offer an alternative or secondary option. Like, "Hey. I don't eat pork. How about we also have some hamburgers." Or if someone worships under the incomprehensible religion of Vegetarianism, the could say, "Hey. I don't eat meat. How about we also have some veggie burgers."

Mentioning a restriction on a main course is perfectly understandable. I also don't have a problem with mormons saying that they don't drink coffee or alcohol. The distinction I see is that there are almost always alternative beverages available. It would be harder with a main food item for a meal. I see the need to preemptively proclaim the word of wisdom as lower. In the moment it's offered, it's fine to say no thanks and give an explanation if pushed.

In my specific example, I'm pretty sure they weren't planning on serving hot coffee to all of the seven year old soccer players with their after-game donut. The WOW proclamation had little practical purpose other than highlighting mormon peculiarity.

Shadow, you make some really good points here, and lds people in general are really good at making the WoW thing awkward and strange around 'non-members'.

How much better would it have been of the guy you were standing with said, 'you know I actually don't drink coffee, maybe we could add in hot chocolate as well!'

[Dravin]

Oh, and yes, I started to drink coffee trying to get a less chemical form of caffein than Diet Coke as a way to control ADD. But to make it less gaggy, I had to add cream and sweetener. What is the point of coffee if I still have to add artificial sweetener? I am in the group of, yes I like a little coffee with my cream and sugar, only being diabetic I can't have the sugar. So, I make 1/2 strength coffee, then add half and half and sweetener. That is less caffein than my diet Dr Pepper. 1/2 strength, then add 1/2 cup half and half. Yeah, otherwise it is just nasty. Oh, back up, start with blond roast hazelnut so it doesn't taste so much like burned chilli beans. Then make it with two times the water, then add your 1/2 cup half and half.

But I am getting used to the taste. It is less nasty than it was one year ago.

I can even take your measure for one cup and make 1 1/2 quarts of weak stuff and drink it over ice. I am not sure if you can call that coffee though. But only if it is blond roast.

But the funny thing is, my TBM husband gets irritated with me when the ADD is being a problem and I am bouncing off walls. He will actually order me to go have my coffee. He can see the difference it makes, and he figures coffee works better than soda because I have to drink so much soda.

Have you tried tea (of various varieties) as a caffeine source? Since it seems like you don't need the full caffeine kick of a black cup of coffee to reap the benefits vis–à–vis ADD (I have ADHD myself), it'd think tea would do the trick. As a benefit you can even kick down the caffeine level another notch with green tea (I do enjoy me some unsweetened green iced tea but considering I'm usually drinking it dozens of ounces at a time I'm not exactly using it to minimize my caffeine intake).

[Jinx]

Coffee has completely changed my DS's life. He had pretty bad focus problems in junior high. His transition to high school took place around the same time as our faith crises, so I suggested he start having a cup of coffee every morning to help his ADHD. He's a straight A student now. He drinks the stuff black.

[alas]

Oh, and yes, I started to drink coffee trying to get a less chemical form of caffein than Diet Coke as a way to control ADD. But to make it less gaggy, I had to add cream and sweetener. What is the point of coffee if I still have to add artificial sweetener? I am in the group of, yes I like a little coffee with my cream and sugar, only being diabetic I can't have the sugar. So, I make 1/2 strength coffee, then add half and half and sweetener. That is less caffein than my diet Dr Pepper. 1/2 strength, then add 1/2 cup half and half. Yeah, otherwise it is just nasty. Oh, back up, start with blond roast hazelnut so it doesn't taste so much like burned chilli beans. Then make it with two times the water, then add your 1/2 cup half and half.

But I am getting used to the taste. It is less nasty than it was one year ago.

I can even take your measure for one cup and make 1 1/2 quarts of weak stuff and drink it over ice. I am not sure if you can call that coffee though. But only if it is blond roast.

But the funny thing is, my TBM husband gets irritated with me when the ADD is being a problem and I am bouncing off walls. He will actually order me to go have my coffee. He can see the difference it makes, and he figures coffee works better than soda because I have to drink so much soda.

Have you tried tea (of various varieties) as a caffeine source? Since it seems like you don't need the full caffeine kick of a black cup of coffee to reap the benefits vis–à–vis ADD (I have ADHD myself), it'd think tea would do the trick. As a benefit you can even kick down the caffeine level another notch with green tea (I do enjoy me some unsweetened green iced tea but considering I'm usually drinking it dozens of ounces at a time I'm not exactly using it to minimize my caffeine intake).

It isn't the amount of caffein, but the taste. Yuck! Bitter and burned. And I do drink tea, but normally I drink that weak too because it tastes bitter. I like chai tea and green tea best. But they even have some of the bitter taste.

Hey, here is a thought. I know some people taste bitter more than most, so I am wondering of those who dislike coffee, are the people who taste bitterness more than average?

[Dravin]

It isn't the amount of caffein, but the taste. Yuck! Bitter and burned. And I do drink tea, but normally I drink that weak too because it tastes bitter. I like chai tea and green tea best. But they even have some of the bitter taste.

I never would have described green tea (admittedly I've only done it iced) as bitter, but then I like black coffee and IPAs so my sense of what I describe as bitter is going to be different than yours.

Hey, here is a thought. I know some people taste bitter more than most, so I am wondering of those who dislike coffee, are the people who taste bitterness more than average?

It wouldn't surprise me to find that supertasters on average dislike coffee more than those who aren't supertasters but I know plenty of non-supertasters who just aren't fans of bitter as a flavor. I also know people who are fine with certain levels of bitterness (say dark chocolate) but find coffee to be too far on the bitter scale for them to enjoy. I've also learned from personal experience that one's preference and ideas for what is pleasantly bitter versus overwhelmingly bitter can change with experience since I found IPAs and black coffee (both things I quite enjoy these days) to be horrendously bitter the first time I tried them but over time my palate shifted and I quite enjoy them.

I guess to sum up, taste preferences be complicated.

[alas]

It isn't the amount of caffein, but the taste. Yuck! Bitter and burned. And I do drink tea, but normally I drink that weak too because it tastes bitter. I like chai tea and green tea best. But they even have some of the bitter taste.

I never would have described green tea (admittedly I've only done it iced) as bitter, but then I like black coffee and IPAs so my sense of what I describe as bitter is going to be different than yours.

Hey, here is a thought. I know some people taste bitter more than most, so I am wondering of those who dislike coffee, are the people who taste bitterness more than average?

While it wouldn't surprise me to find that supertasters on average dislike coffee more than those who aren't supertasters I know plenty of non-supertasters who just aren't fans of bitter as a flavor. I also know people who are fine with certain levels of bitterness (say dark chocolate) but find coffee to be too far on the bitter scale for them to enjoy. I also know from personal experience that one's preference and ideas for what is pleasantly bitter versus overwhelmingly bitter can change with experience since I found IPAs and black coffee (but things I quite enjoy these days) to be horrendously bitter the first time I tried them but over time my palate shifted and I quite enjoy them.

I guess to sum up, taste preferences be complicated.

And seeing as I like dark chocolate, (really dark, the 90% kind) and don't find that unpleasantly bitter, I suppose you are right.

Taste is much more complicated than you learned in school. Scientists are just now discovering that humans can taste several things that were not things I was taught we taste. They are now experimenting to see if humans taste blood, not just the sweet/salty combination, but something else. And I am here to tell you that something else is iron. As kids we used to get the salt licks for our cows, and dad always bought the rabbit ones for us kids. The ones with iron tasted different than the ones without. So, I have always suspected human's taste iron.