Garments

[w2mz]

You joined the NOM board on December 17 2017 and your only post has been about how you are returning to church and belief. Not trying to be a dick, but my troll senses are tingling. I'm not buying it.

Had the same thought.

Best of luck Ben. Hope you find what your life is missing in the tribe.

Oh, and don’t forget your checkbook. They’ll be wanting a chunk of that.

[Ben Davis]

You joined the NOM board on December 17 2017 and your only post has been about how you are returning to church and belief. Not trying to be a dick, but my troll senses are tingling. I'm not buying it.

That's fair. I realize what it looks like, but really just trying to figure out the garment thing. I didn't remember my old password and instead of trying to guess I just made a new account thinking it would be faster / less hassle from a mobile device. Def not faster but yes less hassle. I tried to dig up my old account just now and can't find it in gmail under nom.net, but under nom.org. perhaps my account didn't migrate.

If you don't want to buy my story, no worries. Not really trying to prove anything other than the fact that garment sizing has changed.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ben Davis]

Sorry I can't help with the garment question because I stopped wearing back in 2011 but I do have to ask ....What were your reasons for not believing in the church and what happened to make you believe again?

I stopped wearing in 2011 too.

The tl;dr is:
Basically was going on faith for many years.
Sought answers, didn't receive.
Gradually disengaged out of frustration.
Prayed, got an answer.
The answer gave me clarity, direction, joy, etc.

[Ben Davis]

Wait... they made garments even longer?

Suddenly holding on to underwear that's old enough to drink is paying off.

Maybe I should buy some new Gs before they go back to ankle length.

This made me think of my fav garm whitening recipe. I got it off Pintrest. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/233131718193610026/
And your garms smell so good afterwards too!

Emily Nelson droppin' knowledge, lol

[Ben Davis]

Had the same thought.

Best of luck Ben. Hope you find what your life is missing in the tribe.

Oh, and don’t forget your checkbook. They’ll be wanting a chunk of that.

Ah yes, tithing...still not sold on this one. I'm weaning myself off coffee, but tithing is a tough one. Still not paying. Not sure what I will pay when I do but this one is a little fishy. For me getting back into the church is not going to be a swift thing. I believe the gospel to be true, the organization works for me for the most part (mostly because I'm not looking to the org to dominate my life). I realize I'm trying to find a middle ground in a very black and white, all or nothing org. I'm not perfect, the church isn't perfect. I don't expect either one of us to be and I'm approaching it as an opportunity to adhere to the pieces and parts that work for me and go from there, or just stay there. I don't think I'm going to hell for not striving towards 100% obedience, I used to be that guy and it lead me towards misery. man are that they might have joy so if I'm feeling joy then great. I don't feel the need to turn that over to some random guy (bishop) to tell me how prepared I am for eternal life. My relationship is with God, and I feel guided in a way, not forced or whatevs.

[Brent]

I think Ben is a curious cat. Joins and posts nothing until he goes back to the fold. The post is (to me and probably me alone) a tad disingenuous--and not in a "troll" way but in an interesting, "found renewed happiness--want to share" kind of way. Wouldn't StayLDS have been a better forum to post the original question in?

BUT

I think posting here is a fairly natural thing. He's happy. Fulfilled even.To me it appears he's not interested in causing strife but probably simply hoping someone confirms it's OK to go back, to rekindle relationships and return to the fold, and it is. I would only advise that Ben looks to find confirmation of his actions in an appropriate space. Sunday is Fast & Testimony meeting, post it there. Find the approval where the approval will surely flow. Go to the elders quorum and tactfully ask there. Here it's a little like going to an AA meeting and saying, "I'm going back to drinking--can someone explain which whisky is better, Apple flavored or Honey? I've been out of the game awhile and there's all these flavored bourbons out there and I'm not sure which to pick."

What would you expect for a reaction?

Good luck Ben, enjoy your full heart and spirit, I hope you find yourself fulfilled outside the tight boundary of Mormonism. The church has many good things to offer that members keep to themselves (Love, Charity) or only offer with conditions. Now that you've been outside the wall and understand better why so many folks are I hope you try and knock it down from the inside.

Best in all,

Brent

[Emower]

I would only advise that Ben looks to find confirmation of his actions in an appropriate space. Sunday is Fast & Testimony meeting, post it there. Find the approval where the approval will surely flow. Go to the elders quorum and tactfully ask there. Here it's a little like going to an AA meeting and saying, "I'm going back to drinking--can someone explain which whisky is better, Apple flavored or Honey? I've been out of the game awhile and there's all these flavored bourbons out there and I'm not sure which to pick."

Honestly, based on his description above of where he is at, NOM is a perfect space for him to post in. Just because the majority of us here are not believers and are actively trying to disengage, doesnt mean there is no space for a person trying to re-engage. In fact, if we want this to be more than a self-fellating echo chamber, we should actively encourage people with views like his to participate instead of poke at him for it. If this is not an appropriate place we may need to change the name of the site and the forum statements.

[Emower]

Had the same thought.

Best of luck Ben. Hope you find what your life is missing in the tribe.

Oh, and don’t forget your checkbook. They’ll be wanting a chunk of that.

Ah yes, tithing...still not sold on this one. I'm weaning myself off coffee, but tithing is a tough one. Still not paying. Not sure what I will pay when I do but this one is a little fishy. For me getting back into the church is not going to be a swift thing. I believe the gospel to be true, the organization works for me for the most part (mostly because I'm not looking to the org to dominate my life). I realize I'm trying to find a middle ground in a very black and white, all or nothing org. I'm not perfect, the church isn't perfect. I don't expect either one of us to be and I'm approaching it as an opportunity to adhere to the pieces and parts that work for me and go from there, or just stay there. I don't think I'm going to hell for not striving towards 100% obedience, I used to be that guy and it lead me towards misery. man are that they might have joy so if I'm feeling joy then great. I don't feel the need to turn that over to some random guy (bishop) to tell me how prepared I am for eternal life. My relationship is with God, and I feel guided in a way, not forced or whatevs.

Ben, feel free to post man. I will value it.

[shadow]

I would only advise that Ben looks to find confirmation of his actions in an appropriate space. Sunday is Fast & Testimony meeting, post it there. Find the approval where the approval will surely flow. Go to the elders quorum and tactfully ask there. Here it's a little like going to an AA meeting and saying, "I'm going back to drinking--can someone explain which whisky is better, Apple flavored or Honey? I've been out of the game awhile and there's all these flavored bourbons out there and I'm not sure which to pick."

Honestly, based on his description above of where he is at, NOM is a perfect space for him to post in. Just because the majority of us here are not believers and are actively trying to disengage, doesnt mean there is no space for a person trying to re-engage. In fact, if we want this to be more than a self-fellating echo chamber, we should actively encourage people with views like his to participate instead of poke at him for it. If this is not an appropriate place we may need to change the name of the site and the forum statements.

Scaramucci in the house? https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/948929983380115456

[Linked]

Honestly, based on his description above of where he is at, NOM is a perfect space for him to post in. Just because the majority of us here are not believers and are actively trying to disengage, doesnt mean there is no space for a person trying to re-engage. In fact, if we want this to be more than a self-fellating echo chamber, we should actively encourage people with views like his to participate instead of poke at him for it. If this is not an appropriate place we may need to change the name of the site and the forum statements.

+1

I think there is room for cafeteria NOMs here. This isn't an exmo site, even though many of us lean that way. Let's just have a self-fellating chamber without the echo.

[shadow]

Honestly, based on his description above of where he is at, NOM is a perfect space for him to post in. Just because the majority of us here are not believers and are actively trying to disengage, doesnt mean there is no space for a person trying to re-engage. In fact, if we want this to be more than a self-fellating echo chamber, we should actively encourage people with views like his to participate instead of poke at him for it. If this is not an appropriate place we may need to change the name of the site and the forum statements.

+1

I think there is room for cafeteria NOMs here. This isn't an exmo site, even though many of us lean that way. Let's just have a self-fellating chamber without the echo.

Maybe with some earplugs, to boot?

Besides, what do you think Boyd "Little Factories" Packer would say about self-fellatio?

[Brent]

It is a curiosity to try and figure out just what NOM is. Rather than an echo-chamber it strikes me as a Gateway Drug, in all honesty Support is really "Support for Bailing Out" or "Commiseration" and Doctrinal Discussions is "Mocking/Rebutting Doctrine Discussions". If that offends you then maybe that's good, when was the last Support thread about "helping your survive your visit/home teaching"? Often this is a place where the wounded come to commiserate to look for like-minded people on the way out or already out.

Rude? Well, reality checks can be rough and interventions are a bruising business. It's as simple as looking at how we deal with President Monson's passing. Some are very kind and others not so much. However that's what you expect from ex-pats, a wide variety of opinions. For some the wounds are fresh and the memories burn while others have scabbed and healed so reaction runs the gamut. Is the talk of the probable installation of Brother Nelson show anything other than political concerns? Dude's 93. The pressure will probably crush him, his life expectancy is dramatically shortened. It's a life I wouldn't wish on anyone. If I were still a member my question would be "How do I sustain and support the prophet when I know this is going to crush him? Should I be talking about the idea of Emeritus Apostles within my ward and stake? How should I frame that conversation? Should I not sustain him to bring light to the issue of retiring the elderly?" As it is we're talking about him being a retrenchment hard ass.

But what are you gonna do? Myself, I find the ex-mo reddits and forums so bitter that I can't stomach them and though that bitterness exhibits itself here occasionally it's not the prevailing spirit. I am not immune. I can't think of anything overly nice to say about Pres. Monson so all I can say is, "Tough break. Hard way to go". I also saw the new curriculum and thought, "Some poor bastard is going to get this job as a "reactivation/re-engagement calling, I should post a couple of pointers".

As for Ben, well I said it before and I still mean it: Good luck! May you find happiness within the warm embrace of the Church!

[GoodBoy]

I'm so glad you found happiness. Go with that.

If you can keep what gives you meaning and purpose and not be judgy towards others who find alternative methods of finding meaning and purpose... awesome! Just remember that the spiritual experiences of Muslims, Hindus, Protestants, Catholics, Buddhists, and New Age Religious adherents are also very real and powerful.

I was just talking to a colleague today who shared a very personal spiritual experience that really changed him while meditating and mentally/spiritually traveling to the full moon and back. He was very, very moved and changed by this experience. His whole face lit up while describing it to me. I honestly envy his conviction to astrology and how it gives him meaning and purpose and direction to his life. I have no interest in taking that away from him.

[Guy]

I hate to say this out loud but here goes.

I can understand your lacking feelings from a sentimental nostalgic point of view. I can totally relate to this:

That Sunday, after immersing myself in all my history and facing the disparity between what I've become and what I wanted to become was fairly humbling.

The more I think about this void the more I realize it's held wide open by the expectations of the church. I would actually go back if garments, TR's, tithing settlement, and the toxic culture surrounding sexuality and misogyny were eliminated.

The other problem is my beliefs have crossed into atheist territory. If all churches, religions, and philosophy's are man made then I should be ok with choosing the one that fits my needs best. This is the crux of my problem with going back though. I no longer feel the need to find some type of spirituality anywhere.

Yet I'm nostalgic about my mormon past and the current void my disbelief creates with my spouse and family. Is it worth going back to fulfill those? This is what I'm contemplating for 2018.

I'm leaning towards continuing to walk further away and just remember the good old times while living in the present.

Why does this all have to be so tough?

As far as garments go, the only way I'm wearing them again is in the temple as part of temple worship. Let's just hope they don't make you rent the underwear and return it like the rest of the outfit. I ain't wearing temple rental fundie undies!

Ditto this exactly!
I too have some nostalgia towards the past and my involvement with the Church. While I do still attend on occasion, mostly for my TBM DW and Son, I could never again believe in something that the spirit (or whatever it is that atheists call it) confirmed to me is not true. Still, there are parts of the Church (or is it the friends in our ward) that I do enjoy.

Anyway Ben, best of luck in your return to the fold. If it brings happiness into your life, it does not matter what anyone else thinks.

[SeeNoEvil]

Ben it sounds like you still have a lot of unanswered questions or maybe didn't have success outside of Mormonism so went back to where you were comfortable and welcomed with opened arms. There's nothing wrong with wanting acceptance and to be where we feel at home. We all want that, and if that is what you have found by going back I am happy for you. I hope you find what you are looking for there.

To be honest, when I first read you had gone back I was a quite saddened. I can't imagine ever going back. I don't know you but felt some how we failed to be there for you or help you with your struggles since leaving. I wondered what would cause one to go back because for me it would be like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube after I'd squeezed it all out! I will confess though, in the fresh beginnings of my disaffection I considered going back. I missed a lot of things about Mormonism and it was a struggle to find a new tribe. I felt alone and very much afraid. I lost everything when I left the church and finding a foundation to hold on was slow in going. Finding a new point in which to launch a new life proved more difficult than I expected. That was almost 7 years ago. Today things are much different. Knowing what I know now I can't imagine going back and find it hard to understand why one would want to ... I treasure what I've learned since leaving and the peace it brought to much to give that up. I've worked hard to find out how I was duped in the first place and knowing this I won't allow that to happen again. But Ben, I respect your journey and I just want you to be happy and if going back is where you will find your happiness then I wish you good luck. Come back often with your questions, concerns and stories of your journey. The light is always on here at NOM!

[Emower]

Honestly, based on his description above of where he is at, NOM is a perfect space for him to post in. Just because the majority of us here are not believers and are actively trying to disengage, doesnt mean there is no space for a person trying to re-engage. In fact, if we want this to be more than a self-fellating echo chamber, we should actively encourage people with views like his to participate instead of poke at him for it. If this is not an appropriate place we may need to change the name of the site and the forum statements.

+1

I think there is room for cafeteria NOMs here. This isn't an exmo site, even though many of us lean that way. Let's just have a self-fellating chamber without the echo.

I can get down with that.

[Emower]

I would only advise that Ben looks to find confirmation of his actions in an appropriate space. Sunday is Fast & Testimony meeting, post it there. Find the approval where the approval will surely flow. Go to the elders quorum and tactfully ask there. Here it's a little like going to an AA meeting and saying, "I'm going back to drinking--can someone explain which whisky is better, Apple flavored or Honey? I've been out of the game awhile and there's all these flavored bourbons out there and I'm not sure which to pick."

Honestly, based on his description above of where he is at, NOM is a perfect space for him to post in. Just because the majority of us here are not believers and are actively trying to disengage, doesnt mean there is no space for a person trying to re-engage. In fact, if we want this to be more than a self-fellating echo chamber, we should actively encourage people with views like his to participate instead of poke at him for it. If this is not an appropriate place we may need to change the name of the site and the forum statements.

Scaramucci in the house? https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/948929983380115456

[Wonderment]

You joined the NOM board on December 17 2017 and your only post has been about how you are returning to church and belief.

Hermey.......On the old board, remember the guy who showed up and said that he was returning to church and belief and wanted to know about garments, plus he did not want to pay tithing and was trying to wean himself off coffee and alcohol? Then, he changed his mind and decided to leave the church again. Then, he changed his mind and went back to church, then he said that he had a psychotic episode, a psychotic break, and he wanted to go back again. Then he said that he wanted a temple recommend, but did not want to abstain from coffee/alcohol and did not want to pay tithing.

There are many people that are in and out of church during a faith transition -- that happens all the time. But the guy I am thinking of, changed back and forth every month or so, started drinking, then back and forth every 30 days or so. I'm wondering if this is the same person, who decided that he is going back again. - Wndr.

[Enoch Witty]

Besides, what do you think Boyd "Little Factories" Packer would say about self-fellatio?

Oh, he tried it. FOR SURE. Decided since he couldn't do it that nobody could have any fun with themselves. Bastard.

[shadow]

Besides, what do you think Boyd "Little Factories" Packer would say about self-fellatio?

Oh, he tried it. FOR SURE. Decided since he couldn't do it that nobody could have any fun with themselves. Bastard.

If Boyd is all that's holding you back, you are one very flexible man.