Talking about porn with kids

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SincereInquirer
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Talking about porn with kids

Post by SincereInquirer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:37 pm

So it has happened. I have discovered in the past few days that my son (deacon age) has been viewing porn online. Not surprising of course, and I should have definitely been a bit more on top of this issue as a parent earlier so he could have come to me to talk about it openly and honestly and without shame.

He has previously received the birds and bees talk but no real discussion relating to porn except as he might have heard about at Church. It appears based on the browsing history that he hasn't gone too deep into really "hard core" things, but with how the internet works it would only be a matter of time before he ends up there is my guess.

Given where I stand now (agnostic at best), my experience through my faith transition, feelings about the church, and my own personal experiences with feelings of shame relating to porn and masturbation growing up, I really want to talk with him to hopefully help him avoid the shame I felt growing up in the Church and to deal with this in a healthy way. My wife is as TBM as can be, and I haven't told her about this yet for several reasons, but mainly because I believe she will immediately get mad, shame him, send him to the bishop to confess, and maybe even demand he be signed up for some official or unofficial LDS addiction recovery program.

I am sure there might be comments or advice relating to the fact that I have note told DW or been open and honest about that with her right now, or wanting to deal with it as a couple. Those are likely warranted, but the issue of my relationship and parenting with DW is a whole other complicated mess. What might be helpful on the issue as it pertains to DW would be any thoughts or perhaps resources that any of you might have seen that I could share with DW so we can try to deal with this together in a reasonable, non-shaming way.

As it pertains to my son, I do want to have a conversation really soon, and I struggle a bit because I have a hard time figuring out what I really think about porn. I think the curiosity is natural and healthy, and that the shame around it and the way the Church handles it is unhealthy. That said, I do think that porn creates unrealistic expectations, and there is so much out there that is degrading and demeaning towards women. I don't think he should just have free reign to go seeking out whatever he wants at his age.

So, with that, any ideas or thoughts on how to have the conversation with my son, or resources that you might have? Help, please?
"I don't need the Mormon church to be true, I just need it to not be verifiably false." - something I read somewhere...(help me give proper citation credit if you know where this came from)

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Red Ryder
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Re: Talking about porn with kids

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:22 pm

I don't have a lot of time so I'll just drop this here.

Jennifer Finlayson Fife has a really good online course she put together.

http://www.finlayson-fife.com/talk-to-kids

Start there. It's pretty good.
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SincereInquirer
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Re: Talking about porn with kids

Post by SincereInquirer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:33 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:22 pm
I don't have a lot of time so I'll just drop this here.

Jennifer Finlayson Fife has a really good online course she put together.

http://www.finlayson-fife.com/talk-to-kids

Start there. It's pretty good.
Damn. And I thought I was going to get all of what I needed from a series of posts from my closest internet friends... :lol:

6.5 hour course and homework assignments with DW. Nothing can go wrong...right?

In all seriousness, I do really appreciate the response RR. I am going to take a look at these materials. Thank you.
"I don't need the Mormon church to be true, I just need it to not be verifiably false." - something I read somewhere...(help me give proper citation credit if you know where this came from)

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achilles
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Re: Talking about porn with kids

Post by achilles » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:42 pm

a) I think the curiosity angle is an important one to acknowledge. What is he curious about? Is he curious about what women look like? Is he curious about sex? Is he curious about his own sexual response? Is he curious about things he has heard from other boys, or in media? It's kind of embarrassing to talk about this stuff when you're that age, but don't you want your son to be able to come to you with any of his questions and problems? Now is the time to show him you want to be that kind of dad.

b) It's time to reinforce the idea that there are people around him who want to shame him for his sexuality, and also people who want to trivialize it or make it cheap. He is getting old enough to start making a lot of choices for himself, and how he views and treats his own sexuality is one of those choices. He doesn't have to feel ashamed. Ever. But it's not just a cheap thrill, either. It's full of meaning and is something that can make life beautiful, or a nightmare, and everywhere in between.

c) Masturbation. He's going to want to do it if he isn't already doing it. What kind of attitude do you want him to have about it? There is a lot about it that is very natural, but there are also choices to be made about it, too. It's part of learning how his body works. What the male sexual response feels like. A way to relieve stress. A way to depressurize sexual attractions without rehearsing them with a girl before he's ready for the responsibilities that come with that. Tell him there will be people who want him to feel guilty about it. Pressure to tell the bishop about it and begin often unnecessary "repentance" processes.

d) Porn. Does he know where the pictures and videos come from? Who are the people in those pictures? What kind of consent situation was going on? Were the people in the pictures and videos being manipulated or taken advantage of? Were the pictures sexts that got out and now are everywhere? Is it "reality" for him to be able to expect to see a woman's body anytime he wants to? Regardless of her feelings or ability to consent? Or is that just part of a fantasy that isn't real? I think there are some documentaries about people who got out of porn that might be good to watch together.

e) Sexting. It is so rampant. Boys asking girls for pics. Boys sending pics of themselves. Have you guys talked about this? If you snap a picture and hit send, it's gone--it's out there, and you have no more control over what happens to it or who sees it. Is it smart to get involved in that? Ask him what he thinks about it.

f) Sex. He's going to want to have sex, and it's totally normal. But it's a loaded gun now. If he can ejaculate, he can get a girl pregnant. And that is a very powerful thing to know. Ask him when he wants to have kids. When will he be ready? When does he think he will be mature enough to have sex? What are his responsibilities if he chooses to have sex? Does he know he could be a dad ten months from now if he chose that? Does he know about STDs--what they are, how they are transmitted, what the consequences are? How many teens and young adults have them?

This is a lot of stuff. And definitely not something to discuss once and forget. Do you have have "dates" with him? Time to do fun things or work on projects together? Tell him that those are times he can ask whatever questions he wants about anything, including sexuality. That he can tell you his feelings and his thoughts. Make it a priority to slowly bring these things up on a regular basis. Help him feel comfortable talking about this stuff with you. Let him know that you didn't get this stuff, and that you might feel uncomfortable about it sometimes. But that you love him and want him to have the best experience with this part of his life as possible. To be a smart guy about it.

This idea that without the Church there is no way to bring up good kids is preposterous. Maybe you can agree with your wife to handle your sons' questions about sexuality.

Those are some quick thoughts I've had. And no, maybe it's not a good idea to tell your wife if you think she is going to overreact or lay guilt on him.
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Reuben
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Re: Talking about porn with kids

Post by Reuben » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:17 pm

achilles, that is all amazing. I especially like your point b.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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SincereInquirer
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Re: Talking about porn with kids

Post by SincereInquirer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:45 pm

achilles wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:42 pm
a) I think the curiosity angle is an important one to acknowledge. What is he curious about? Is he curious about what women look like? Is he curious about sex? Is he curious about his own sexual response? Is he curious about things he has heard from other boys, or in media? It's kind of embarrassing to talk about this stuff when you're that age, but don't you want your son to be able to come to you with any of his questions and problems? Now is the time to show him you want to be that kind of dad.

b) It's time to reinforce the idea that there are people around him who want to shame him for his sexuality, and also people who want to trivialize it or make it cheap. He is getting old enough to start making a lot of choices for himself, and how he views and treats his own sexuality is one of those choices. He doesn't have to feel ashamed. Ever. But it's not just a cheap thrill, either. It's full of meaning and is something that can make life beautiful, or a nightmare, and everywhere in between.

c) Masturbation. He's going to want to do it if he isn't already doing it. What kind of attitude do you want him to have about it? There is a lot about it that is very natural, but there are also choices to be made about it, too. It's part of learning how his body works. What the male sexual response feels like. A way to relieve stress. A way to depressurize sexual attractions without rehearsing them with a girl before he's ready for the responsibilities that come with that. Tell him there will be people who want him to feel guilty about it. Pressure to tell the bishop about it and begin often unnecessary "repentance" processes.

d) Porn. Does he know where the pictures and videos come from? Who are the people in those pictures? What kind of consent situation was going on? Were the people in the pictures and videos being manipulated or taken advantage of? Were the pictures sexts that got out and now are everywhere? Is it "reality" for him to be able to expect to see a woman's body anytime he wants to? Regardless of her feelings or ability to consent? Or is that just part of a fantasy that isn't real? I think there are some documentaries about people who got out of porn that might be good to watch together.

e) Sexting. It is so rampant. Boys asking girls for pics. Boys sending pics of themselves. Have you guys talked about this? If you snap a picture and hit send, it's gone--it's out there, and you have no more control over what happens to it or who sees it. Is it smart to get involved in that? Ask him what he thinks about it.

f) Sex. He's going to want to have sex, and it's totally normal. But it's a loaded gun now. If he can ejaculate, he can get a girl pregnant. And that is a very powerful thing to know. Ask him when he wants to have kids. When will he be ready? When does he think he will be mature enough to have sex? What are his responsibilities if he chooses to have sex? Does he know he could be a dad ten months from now if he chose that? Does he know about STDs--what they are, how they are transmitted, what the consequences are? How many teens and young adults have them?

This is a lot of stuff. And definitely not something to discuss once and forget. Do you have have "dates" with him? Time to do fun things or work on projects together? Tell him that those are times he can ask whatever questions he wants about anything, including sexuality. That he can tell you his feelings and his thoughts. Make it a priority to slowly bring these things up on a regular basis. Help him feel comfortable talking about this stuff with you. Let him know that you didn't get this stuff, and that you might feel uncomfortable about it sometimes. But that you love him and want him to have the best experience with this part of his life as possible. To be a smart guy about it.

This idea that without the Church there is no way to bring up good kids is preposterous. Maybe you can agree with your wife to handle your sons' questions about sexuality.

Those are some quick thoughts I've had. And no, maybe it's not a good idea to tell your wife if you think she is going to overreact or lay guilt on him.
Wow. I knew I would get fantastic advice here. This is an amazing set of thoughts and ideas, and I really appreciate that you took the time to respond!

I do have separate time with each of our kids fairly often, and planned to start the conversation at that time. This is a really great set of ideas for several different conversations. It won't be a one time thing I am sure, at least I don't want it to be.
"I don't need the Mormon church to be true, I just need it to not be verifiably false." - something I read somewhere...(help me give proper citation credit if you know where this came from)

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: Talking about porn with kids

Post by MalcolmVillager » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:24 pm

I was going to say Dr FF as well, plus Natasha Helfer Parker. They both do a great job but Dr FF is more TBM in approach.

My DD came to us in tears one night confessing she had seen some stuff and was terrified. It was all pretty innocent (instagram) really, but to a young TBM girl it really rocked her. I had my DW list to Dr FF and then we just agreed to let DD listen with us.

We told her that she should not feel guilty for masturbation, ever. But that it should not turn into a compulsion. We did caution her strongly on porn and set up some software on her phone. There is always a way around but we make it hard at least.

My DW and I listened to every podcast on porn, sex shaming, and how to parent kids about porn. That really opened up some good conversation between us and with our DD.

You and your DW need it be on the same page first, then just be open and confident. Don't make it weird.

Of course you should discuss how/if the BP should ever be involved and even role play with him so he can answer correctly under pressure.

You've got this.

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