Mom is in the hospital today

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IT_Veteran
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Mom is in the hospital today

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue May 15, 2018 11:29 am

Just need to vent for a bit. Really struggling with finding any good in the message of the church today. I know they can't be blamed for every bad thing and that it isn't all bad. I just see a lot of messages that damage people in ways that may not be seen for years or even decades.

My mom is in the hospital today because her anxiety reached a breaking point yesterday. Dad didn't say, and I wasn't brave enough to ask him (nor did it feel like the right time) if she actually attempted suicide last night. However, she is in the ER and is being committed to an inpatient psychiatric facility for "a few days" until they get her on some medication and talk therapy. I have a hard time imagining why they would take those pretty extreme steps for anything other than a suicide attempt or significant threat of one.

To be clear, my mom has always struggled with anxiety and depression. I told my dad this morning that I want to talk to her or come visit, but that I acknowledge my leaving the church recently may have contributed to her current state. He choked up, struggled to find the words, and eventually just said that it played a part in it. I don't blame him or my mom for that, it's not their fault they've been indoctrinated. I'm glad he was honest with me and that we're not just dancing around it right now. But I'm so ******* pissed at the church right now it's palpable. I can't focus on work, school, I can't think about anything else right now. I need to go home. But I don't think that would help me either. I want to be there for my mom, but I'm part of the problem right now.

I recognize that a chemical imbalance in her brain is the most significant factor in her breakdown. But I'm a not-insignificant factor in it either. At this moment, I wish I'd been able to just pretend, to just go along to get along. I wish that the church hadn't taught my mom, for decades, that if she was a better parent, her kids would stay in the church. Of course, better parenting was personified only by scripture study, bearing testimony, prayer, and FHE. She really internalized the promise that her kids would never stray if she had FHE every week. The problem is that she didn't hold FHE every week, nor do any of those other "better parent" type things, so the guilt is amplified. She sees it as her fault that 3 out of 5 kids (2 of 3 bio kids that she is sealed to) have left the church. She doesn't yet know that my oldest has also left the church - how am I supposed to tell her now?

If it wouldn't hurt her more, I'd resign from the church today and be done with it. I'm stuck in this place where I want nothing to do with the church, I want my kids out of it, I want my spouse out of it, but I also recognize the pain that would cause my parents, my in-laws, other family, and friends.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue May 15, 2018 12:09 pm

First off, I hope your Mom will be ok. That's just really tough to go through, you have my sympathy and empathy. It's just a tough situation for everybody.

Secondly, as hard as it is NOT to feel that it's your fault, it really isn't. One of my kids had a young man that took her rejection rather hard, and she was guilted into hanging around a bit longer for fear of what he might do to himself if she didn't. We had a LONG conversation about how what people do to themselves, whether it's by choice or by brain chemistry, it doesn't matter, a tragic ending simply would not be her fault because she chose to end the relationship. End of story.

To me, this is a similar situation. It's simply not your fault, your choices are your choices, and if your Mom's brain chemistry can't deal with it, you can't own it. And really, if that's the case, it's not really your Mom's fault either. No blame here for anybody, it seems, just dealing with with mental illness challenges can be tough all around. And there could be other factors - it was Mothers' Day yesterday, and they are really tough on Mormon mothers who live in a culture where they simply can't measure up. And that's not your fault either.

But yes, the church has a lot to do with this, the way they push toxic perfectionism. We've finally come to a place where my anxious wife will finally buy that the church exacerbates this in her, when for years she tried to absolve it of all blame. Maybe with time and therapy your mom can see this too.

But at the end of the day, not fun to see family members wrestle with this. Sending you positive internet vibes as you deal with this!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

jfro18
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by jfro18 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:11 pm

I'm so sorry about your mom - that is awful news and I know there's nothing anyone can say that will make you feel better about it. That will take time for the initial shock to wear off and to get a gameplan once she has been evaluated and back home.

As for the church - I have come to blame the church solely for these issues. It might not be 100% fair, but I can not blame people who are raised by parents to follow this blindly to then have awful reactions when things around them start to break away from it. They have them singing "Follow the prophet" from the first days in primary so of course it is difficult to imagine there is any other way to live.

It is a horrible organization because not only do they indoctrinate kids early, but they make you feel miserable simply for asking questions. If that doesn't describe an abusive/controlling relationship, I don't know what does. When you walk away, it leads to a cycle of distrust and bad feelings which the church feeds on to keep those who remain faithful not only inline, but further retrenched. That is not on you - that is on a bad environment and if there are issues with chemicals in the brain that is something you could not know or be expected to predict or know how everything would unfold. It's so hard to be able to accept it while everything is happening, but this is just not on you.

I guess I would say that right now, vent away here as much as you need to. It's a good place to do it with friendly people who you can bounce ideas off of. I know you are blaming yourself for leaving the church, but it is not your fault - that is the fault of the church that continues to ruin families by placing wedges between people over false doctrine, and possibly the fault of chemicals in the brain that are out of your control.

Definitely hope things clear up for you guys soon and that the incident that led to this is not as bad as you fear. I know it will be impossible to distract yourself right now, so I just hope you can find something to do if that's at all possible whether it's watching a movie, exercise, playing a sport, or even just playing a video game or something.

We're all here and I know I'm new, but everyone brings some great advice and experience and if there's ever a reason for this board, it's times like these. Stay strong as best you can and I hope you get some good news soon.

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by MerrieMiss » Tue May 15, 2018 12:22 pm

Can I just repeat everything Mormorrisey and jfro18 said? I am so sorry about this. So, so sorry. I do hope you and your parents come through this okay, that it isn't as bad as it seems, and that things can turn around for the better. It isn't right for a church to do this to people.
The true opposite of order is not disorder but freedom. Most profoundly, the true opposite of control is not chaos but self-control. -Jay Griffiths

IT_Veteran
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue May 15, 2018 12:27 pm

Thank you all for your responses. I think intellectually I know this isn't my fault. I don't think this breakdown was caused by my leaving the church on its own, just that it contributed. And while I understand that the guilt is not mine to bear here, that it is still hard to separate the emotion from it. I recognize that, more than anything, this is a brain chemistry issue. That said, I still can't help but feel that if I hadn't told her that I was leaving the church, this isn't where she'd be right now. That if I hadn't publicly denounced my membership in the church when the Joseph Bishop thing came out, that her feelings about it now wouldn't be different.

I think maybe that's why I feel bad. Not only did I leave the church (though remain on the rolls), but that I blamed the church for the Joe Bishop thing and, worse, that I was public about it where my kids and their friends could see it.

jfro18
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by jfro18 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:48 pm

It's natural to feel guilt and it's beyond natural to replay all of the decisions you have made that make you feel that guilt.

I think time is the only thing that is going to help here, which is a double edged sword because for now all you have time to do is think. I remember when we had to put our dog down, I spent the next few weeks agonizing over things I could have done. And even then I knew we did all the things that we could've done within reason. In some ways it's like cog-dis -- we all have this need to save those we care about and our brains just won't let us replay the things we could've done to do just that.

Anyway - I know this isn't much help, but I hope that you get some good news soon that the situation is not as bad as you fear it is. Right now your mom is the most important thing, and I really hope that as she gets therapy it will also help her come to terms with the church issues. Until then though, it's all about focusing on what you can do going forward and stay as positive as humanly possible. We're all pulling for you guys!

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FoundMyOwnWay
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by FoundMyOwnWay » Tue May 15, 2018 1:21 pm

I want to echo that it is not your fault, that depression and/or chemical imbalances are challenges that only one can overcome. I think this is what makes it so difficult for parents, siblings, and friends. Even the best, most loving, and most caring friend in the world cannot force someone out of that cold dark night, it is something that one has to overcome. In the same way it is the choice of the burdened to try to escape a pain they cannot yet see an end to, and we shouldn't hold ourselves accountable. Even those with great lives can be dragged down by depression and chemical imbalances, so we cannot hold the blame. It is real, very painful, and can take a long time, but recovery is 100% possible. In talking about one overcoming I don't want to downplay the assistance therapy and medicine can provide either, because they can help.

I am sorry for what you are your mother are going through. The only advise I have is that whatever you do, do it with love, and whatever you say, say it with love. Knowing that those around you love you, can help provide one the strength to carry this weight just a just little further each time, until one day the weight is left behind. All we can do is ensure we show them the love we have for them, and when we see them struggling we are there to lift them up.

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Corsair
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Corsair » Tue May 15, 2018 1:50 pm

Our hearts go out to you. This is not fun and not your fault even though some passive aggressive blame seems to be pointed at you. Good luck finding some way through this.

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Linked
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Linked » Tue May 15, 2018 2:48 pm

I'm so sorry to hear this IT Vet, the church environment can be so very toxic. The self blame it encourages is so harmful.

I'm sorry that your mother had to be hospitalized and that you feel some blame. We know that you are only trying to do what you feel is best, and what more can you do? Keep being your best and hang in there through this very difficult situation.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Cadahangel
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Cadahangel » Tue May 15, 2018 2:50 pm

I'm sorry to hear about this if you ever need to just chat you can PM me. I know its hard but don't blame yourself. I actually worked in a behavioral health unit for a while. I saw a lot of this. Make sure to take care of yourself during this time if you need to take a mental health day please do. Love you brother!

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Hagoth
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Hagoth » Tue May 15, 2018 8:42 pm

So sorry IT_V. The fact that the church indoctrinates its members in a way that can exasperate already difficult situations like this just because someone is thinking for themselves is so frustrating. Best of luck to you, your mom and your family.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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moksha
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by moksha » Tue May 15, 2018 10:24 pm

Best wishes for your Mom.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed May 16, 2018 7:37 am

Dupe post
Last edited by RubinHighlander on Wed May 16, 2018 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RubinHighlander
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed May 16, 2018 7:39 am

Dude, I'd be mad too and in fact the more I see the damage from indoctrination into fundamentalist dogma and the way those organizations and corporations treat people, I get more pissed about it over time. It's hard to let it go when it still affects your immediate family.

My DWs dad committed suicide over a decade ago. He had some health and depression problems. My DW had a lot of issues with how she was raised, primarily by her mom, who ran the household on guilt and shaming. It kept most of the kids pretty much in line but it came at a cost. Now my DW deals with lots of guilt and depression like her dad. The mom in that family required they stay in their church cloths all day on Sundays - enough said.

Leaving the church has helped my DW quite a bit and she's finding her way out of much of the guilt she was raised on. Right now she's reading "The Art of Not Giving a F*ck".

Anyway IT_V - You have my empathy in this crap you are going through and I hope your mom finds a way to better health and happiness. I felt a lot of guilt and stress when my kids left the church when I was still a TBM. I put tons of guilt on myself when my first wife cheated on me multiple times, putting all the blame on me for not being a better patriarch in the family to hold the eternal unit together. It nearly drove me to suicide! Now I blame the church for all that crap I put myself through. Bottom line is that all this LDS BS is absolute BS and the world would be better off without it!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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MoPag
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by MoPag » Wed May 16, 2018 9:37 am

Hugs IT_Vet and Kalikala!
hugs4IT_VandKali.png
hugs4IT_VandKali.png (62.87 KiB) Viewed 495 times
Take the time you need to work through your feelings. Know that were are always here for you!
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

IT_Veteran
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by IT_Veteran » Wed May 16, 2018 10:51 am

I just want to say thank you to everyone for the kind words, encouragement, support, and being here to remind me of the things that matter. You all helped. I'm doing better today, not sure how she's doing yet. Reading the posts here helped me to process things and work through them, so I thank you all.

Wonderment
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Wonderment » Wed May 16, 2018 12:31 pm

IT_Vet :) Sending very best wishes, big hugs, and positive thoughts for you and your Mom. I know that you Mom appreciates that you are there for her at this time. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a loving and conscientious daughter to her. :) Please keep us posted, from Wndr.

IT_Veteran
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by IT_Veteran » Wed May 16, 2018 1:35 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:31 pm
IT_Vet :) Sending very best wishes, big hugs, and positive thoughts for you and your Mom. I know that you Mom appreciates that you are there for her at this time. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a loving and conscientious daughter to her. :) Please keep us posted, from Wndr.
Thank you for the kind words. Small point of clarification - I'm the son. Kalikala is my DW. I've made this mistake on NOM before too, so believe me when I say I know how hard it is to keep everyone's details straight in my mind.

Margarita
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Margarita » Wed May 16, 2018 1:44 pm

Big Hugs..go with flow..I say this because this last mother's day...I miss my Mom..in all the highs and lows..
My daughter is not speaking to me..so take a moment to breath..you can still be yourself..but let that self remember
those moments not so long ago. She is conditioned to believe something she thinks is for YOUR sake..it is the church again.

Be above all that ..let your love shine..and she will remember too..even for a moment..what is really important.

Reuben
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Re: Mom is in the hospital today

Post by Reuben » Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 pm

So sorry, man. This sucks.

I want to give you the perspective of someone who has recently been struggling with chronic stress/panic and depression. It was caused by three things. One was health-related, another was work-related, and another was church-related. I would have lasted longer before having a breakdown if any of these causes had been absent, but as long as the health-related cause was there, it would have caused depression on its own eventually.

I imagine your mom is similar. I'm sure it sucks being her last straw, but there would always be another straw ready to get thrown on. These things tend to build until breaking point, then the person heals, and the process starts again.

A curious thing happened to me just before I started into the tailspin: my mind, which is usually pretty optimistic, flipped into worst-case mode. With regard to the things I was most afraid of, I was a flaming pessimist. If I had found out that our ward wanted to have me crowned king, I would have felt that they were doing it to disrespect me somehow. Perhaps worse, as long as there was a chance I could lose whatever critical thing I thought I might lose, I felt five times as bad as I would have felt if I had actually lost it.

There's a very limited amount of responsibility you can take for the thoughts and feelings of someone in this state.

This was my fourth bout with depression. Even though it's always been caused by health issues, it forces unrelated changes on me. This time, I've had to let go of unrealistic expectations I had for Mormons in general, which I had been clinging to in case they made me happy. To actually be happy, I have to accept them for who they are, regardless of what I think about it, and regardless of whether I'm right or wrong. I hope your mom can do the same thing with regards to you, for her sake.
Grieve. It's your right and inheritance as a human being.

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