Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

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Reuben
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Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Reuben » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:56 am

Talking a day off because I'm having an off day, reading about forgiveness.

Articles by psychologists and therapists are often very different from religious articles. Before I dive into what I think the biggest difference is, here are some similarities. Everyone agrees that forgiving is good for your health. Most from both sides describe it as liberation or detachment. Many say it doesn't depend on the offender's repentance, but acknowledge that the repentance makes it easier. Some distinguish forgiving from reconciling, though I think I've seen more of this distinction on the secular side.

(I might be wrong about these generalizations. My sample size is small and not representative.)

It seems the biggest point of disagreement is over timing.

Most religious articles I've read, and some secular ones, want you to forgive now. I wonder if secular writers who advocate up-front forgiveness see the benefits of forgiving and want them for other people. I wonder if religious writers who advocate up-front forgiveness think of anger, resentment and desire to punish as arising from a stain (ugh) or critical wound on the soul, so that other aspects of healing necessarily have to wait. I also wonder whether some writers just aren't aware of anything that might have to be done first.

On the other hand, most secular articles I've read, and some religious ones, place forgiving near the end of healing. Here's one that I really liked:

Four Elements of Forgiveness

Here are the forgiveness steps from the article:
  • A. Express the emotion
  • B. Understand why
  • C. Rebuild safety
  • 4. Let go
The weird numbering is intentional. His point is that A, B, and C have to be done before 4, but not necessarily in that order. (The notation bugs me a little, but we'll go with it.)

So you're in pain and shock, and are wounded and betrayed. Your brain says, over and over again, "You're hurt! Fix this! Make sure it doesn't happen again! That person (or entity) did it!" Step A says don't bottle this up. I think step B is half for securing your long-term safety, and half for finding compassion. Step C is about not feeling like you have to protect yourself from the offender all the time. When the pain has subsided enough and you feel relatively safe, you can let go.

I've spent a lot of time doing step B: understanding why. Step A, expressing emotion, is hard for me to do because there are very few people around me who would understand. So I've put a few angry miles on my bike. It helps. Step C, though...

That's my big hangup. I don't feel safe. Not attending seems to have been good for my self-esteem, which takes a serious hit when I feel looked down on while in certain mental states. Not attending has also made it easier to forget the church's blindly self-aggrandizing attempts at sabotaging my relationships... but of course they haven't actually gone away. From my vantage point on the outside, I can see threats to individual members of my family - I can even give a common scenario for each child - but I'm limited in the actions I can take to mitigate them. Every time I can share something I've learned with my children, I feel safer, but it happens so slowly.

(Yes, threats to my kids feels like threats to me. I'm a parent, after all.)

Reframing helps: they're safer than they would be if I hadn't stopped believing. It's hard to keep in mind, though. Reminding myself of benefits of church activity helps. But it's always coupled with the idea that the more benefits my kids get, the more they depend on the church, so the more it can hurt them.

In general, I feel safer than I used to, but I guess still unsafe enough that letting go of resentment doesn't last. I have to do it for the sake of my relationships, but it always seems to come back.
Grieve. It's your right and inheritance as a human being.

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achilles
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by achilles » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:11 pm

For me, the danger of the Mormon injunction to forgive immediately was that I never even got to step A. I would "forgive" before even letting myself feel that I was hurt. Needless to say, it's very damaging to the psyche.
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Reuben
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Reuben » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:01 pm

achilles wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:11 pm
For me, the danger of the Mormon injunction to forgive immediately was that I never even got to step A. I would "forgive" before even letting myself feel that I was hurt. Needless to say, it's very damaging to the psyche.
Ah, see, it's a sin to not forgive. It's a greater sin to not forgive when your offender claims to repent.

I found a bunch of bullshit like that while reading. In one memorable piece on lds.org, the writer felt guilty and ashamed for not having forgiven her abusive father. Once I understood what usually has to happen first, it was obvious that one of the quickest ways to circumvent healing is to demand that the victim forgive right now, on pain of community judgment.

I'm sorry you went through that.
Grieve. It's your right and inheritance as a human being.

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Dravin
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Dravin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:24 pm

Reuben wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:01 pm
Ah, see, it's a sin to not forgive. It's a greater sin to not forgive when your offender claims to repent.

I found a bunch of bullshit like that while reading. In one memorable piece on lds.org, the writer felt guilty and ashamed for not having forgiven her abusive father. Once I understood what usually has to happen first, it was obvious that one of the quickest ways to circumvent healing is to demand that the victim forgive right now, on pain of community judgment.

I'm sorry you went through that.
An additional danger of Mormon forgiveness (or Christian forgiveness in general) is with the component of "remember no more" rather than working through and past hurt and anger is there is a pressure to just pretend like nothing ever happened. Not only does this result in things like Uncle Tim who molested a child being left alone with children because "he's been forgiven/he's repented", it can also be weaponized by abusers and ancillary individuals (such as priesthood leaders) to keep people from speaking up and standing up against abuse because reporting abuse to secular authorities is seen as being unforgiving. It's a charlie foxtrot on multiple levels.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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Linked
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Linked » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:49 pm

Reuben wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:56 am
On the other hand, most secular articles I've read, and some religious ones, place forgiving near the end of healing. Here's one that I really liked:

Four Elements of Forgiveness

Here are the forgiveness steps from the article:
  • A. Express the emotion
  • B. Understand why
  • C. Rebuild safety
  • 4. Let go
Thanks for sharing Reuben.

Healing from emotional injury seems to take time and distance. Time to go through these steps. Distance to be able to go through the emotions, have the distance needed to consider the why without the pressure that being in the situation causes, and with distance comes safety.

In a mixed faith marriage you sometimes have the time, but it seems impossible to get the distance needed. We can't express our pain and anger because of the negative social consequences. The emotions are constantly thrown in our face if we are attending church each week, and more so if our spouses insist on home study. And it is a constant threat to our relationships; there is no safety from the emotional pain caused by the church.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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alas
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by alas » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:38 am

Forgiveness is taught very badly by religion, but it isn’t religion’s fault. It is taught badly because 90% of the people in the world have never forgiven big, on purpose stuff. F you listen in Church the stories about forgiveness are about relatively small stuff or about accidental stuff. One classic I hate is about mistaken identity, essentially an accident, called A Piece of String, in which a guy is seen picking up something, and is thrown in prison for not returning a rich person’s dropped purse. The person who reported that they had seen this man pick up something was not cruel or purposely hurting anyone. This story is NOT about “forgiveness” but about accepting that accidents, coincidents, mistaken identity, or misunderstanding happen and HURT people. No one purposely threw an innocent man in prison.

Compare this classic stupid story with the child whose father beats them. Oh, he knows what he is doing. He knows he is injuring his child. And it happens for years. Broken arms, broken ribs, welts, bruises, burns from him putting out his cigarette on the child. This is not punishment taken to extreme, but sadism. The jerks gets pleasure out of hurting people, and the child is there and can’t fight back.

In the one case, it just takes understanding what happened, and accepting that shit happens. But how do you “understand” when it is someone taking pleasure out of hurting you, not once, but over and over. This was done on purpose, to hurt you, by someone who is supposed to love and protect you.

People talk about forgiveness like the only alternative is purposely holding a grudge and wanting to get even. Well, obviously being obsessed with wanting to hurt someone else is not healthy. Funny, but in all my years of working professionally with rape victims, with child sexual abuse victims, with battered wives, even battered husbands, I never had one client who wanted revenge. They just wanted to heal. But people around them demanded that they get over it NOW, forgive NOW. With no concept that healing takes time. It takes being safe from the person who hurt you. It takes understanding that it was not your fault or what you deserved.

Repeat after me, “It takes being safe from the person who hurt you.” Battered wives cannot stay with an abusive husband and forgive. They are not safe from the person who is hurting them. Lied to church members cannot keep attending a church that lies to them and forgive that church. They are not safe from the lies.

There really are lots of other things people do other than revenge that are not really forgiveness. Often these things seem like forgiveness to those around them so they push for these things. Burying the pain, turning the blame on themselves, pretending it did no harm.

Forgiveness is like when you are bit by a rattle snake and you forget the snake and get yourself to a doctor for HEALING. Any thing else you do is going to kill you. Chasing down the snake to kill it, (revenge) yup you are dead. Pretending you didn’t get bit, (denial) yup you’re dead. Claiming you fell and skinned your knee (Blaming yourself) yup, you’re dead. Loving the rattle snake and keeping it for a pet, (but he’s my father/husband/church leader) yup, you’re dead. It was such a little bite (minimization) yup, y.a.d. He didn’t mean any harm, (forgiving too quickly and not getting to the doctor) yup, y.a.d. A friend saying “ It is just too hard to take you to the doctor. You just have to get over it yourself.” Yup, listen to them and you are dead. Focusing on not being angry at the snake (what many call forgiveness) yup, y.a.d. Anything that is not getting yourself healed will kill you just as much as revenge. So, tell me, why are people so hung up on “people who do not forgive want vengeance”? There are LOTS of ways to not heal, and healing for big things always has to happen before forgiveness. So, when people push forgiveness before allowing time to heal or helping you get to the doctor.

But people push these other things thinking they lead to forgiveness. They don’t. Not being angry at the snake will not heal the snake bite. Pretending nothing happened will not heal the snake bite. But these are often easier for those around us who don’t want to stop their picnic to take you to the doctor.

Any time any one wants you to forgive for their comfort, they want to leave you to die of snake bite so they do not have to interrupt their picnic to get you to the doctor. Beware of people pushing “forgiveness”. Often they do not really want your healing, but they want to avoid the inconvenience of getting you to a doctor. Healing from a snake bite is messy and people do not want the inconvience. So, they tell you denial is forgiveness.

With my snake bite analogy, you can see how silly forgiving by pretending it was just a nip, not a real bite, is. But with emotional injuries people do it all the time.

I had one friend tell me that not letting my children sit on grandpa’s lap was lack of forgiveness. Hooray those of you who don’t know my father sexually abused me) This friend was high up in the church (an MTC president hated by many) and confused forgiveness with snuggling with a rattlesnake. He wanted me to “forgive” by pretending that my father was not a sexual predator (not a rattle snake) and allow my children unrestricted access to my abuser. Yeah, give the kids a pet rattle snake to play with. People, this is NOT forgiveness. It is stupidity. But this is the kind of stupidity the church pushes calling it forgiveness, when really it is more about them being too G. D. Lazy to take you to the doctor and give you time to heal.

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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Linked » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:21 pm

Thanks Alas, that was a fantastic write up.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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foolmeonce
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by foolmeonce » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:29 pm

This thread is a great example of why NOM is in my opinion, the best transitioning Mormon group on out there. I just can't help but keep coming back. You guys rock. (I don't post a ton here because me saying "yup I agree 100%" just gets in the way of good discussion. That way I can leave the bandwidth open to folks much wiser than I. Couldn't help myself this time though.)
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Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

Reuben
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Reuben » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:32 pm

I was hoping you'd offer your wisdom and experience, alas. You didn't disappoint.
alas wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:38 am
In the one case, it just takes understanding what happened, and accepting that shit happens. But how do you “understand” when it is someone taking pleasure out of hurting you, not once, but over and over. This was done on purpose, to hurt you, by someone who is supposed to love and protect you.
Yeah, my use of "understanding" was ambiguous. I realize that I (and I think the article) actually meant it in two senses at the same time.

One sense is understanding a person or organization who hurt you in order to have compassion. It's really empathy. If empathy is possible, it can help. I can empathize with how my parents were taught that shame is a fine way to influence behavior, and didn't know better. I can see how they struggled against using it, and because of that did better than their parents. Empathizing helps me, as an adult, see them as less threatening to the anxious kid inside who still wants to please them.

Empathy is absolutely NOT required for forgiveness. And I would guess that having empathy requires feeling safe enough.

Another sense is understanding the situation, or similarly, understanding what to expect out of a person you can't empathize with. It's hard for me to empathize with a sexual predator. If he had abused me, I think it would be impossible. But I could understand that it wasn't my fault, how his abuse had affected me, the fact that he's no longer a threat, and that I can't trust him with kids. That's what I was getting at with understanding being about long-term safety.
alas wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:38 am
Repeat after me, “It takes being safe from the person who hurt you.” Battered wives cannot stay with an abusive husband and forgive. They are not safe from the person who is hurting them. Lied to church members cannot keep attending a church that lies to them and forgive that church. They are not safe from the lies.
It's a bittersweet thing to have this affirmed.
alas wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:38 am
Forgiveness is like when you are bit by a rattle snake and you forget the snake and get yourself to a doctor for HEALING. Any thing else you do is going to kill you. Chasing down the snake to kill it, (revenge) yup you are dead. Pretending you didn’t get bit, (denial) yup you’re dead. Claiming you fell and skinned your knee (Blaming yourself) yup, you’re dead. Loving the rattle snake and keeping it for a pet, (but he’s my father/husband/church leader) yup, you’re dead. It was such a little bite (minimization) yup, y.a.d. He didn’t mean any harm, (forgiving too quickly and not getting to the doctor) yup, y.a.d. A friend saying “ It is just too hard to take you to the doctor. You just have to get over it yourself.” Yup, listen to them and you are dead. Focusing on not being angry at the snake (what many call forgiveness) yup, y.a.d. Anything that is not getting yourself healed will kill you just as much as revenge. So, tell me, why are people so hung up on “people who do not forgive want vengeance”? There are LOTS of ways to not heal, and healing for big things always has to happen before forgiveness. So, when people push forgiveness before allowing time to heal or helping you get to the doctor.
I really like this analogy.

It seems to me that all of those things you listed that aren't forgiveness involve maintaining some attachment to the snake or to how you reacted to the bite. Is that right?
Grieve. It's your right and inheritance as a human being.

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Angel
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Angel » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:30 pm

Betrayal trauma ... if you are not familiar with it, wiki is as good a place to start as any.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal_trauma


A little bit ago there was a fb post about a recent lesson - I just looked it up, here is a quote:

"When you hold a grudge against someone, regardless of the reasons behind the grudge, your unwillingness to forgive may foster in you a sense of bitterness that can grow over time into anger or even violence. Your grudge can be compared to a snakebite—if you are bitten by a snake and spend the next moments seeking revenge, you are more likely to allow the poison to become fatal than you are if you forget about the snake and immediately seek medical attention. "

I actually argued with them on fb - said it was selfish to "forget about the snake" - that the snake would go on biting person after person after person if you were selfish enough to just worry about your own bite.

In engineering - for spill response - the first thing you do is NOT clean up the mess. The first thing you do is containment.
Steps:
1. Communicate the hazard
2. Control the spill
3. Contain the hazard
4. Clean up the spill and any damage

translated to the snake bite that would be:
1. Communicate the hazard - point at the snake, yell, alert everyone else to the nature and position of the snake
2. Control the spill - trap the snake
3. Contain the hazard - kill the snake, and put up barriers to prevent future snakes from entering the area
4. Clean up the spill and any damage - treat the snake bites that have happened.

Treatment does not happen until step #4.
Last edited by Angel on Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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alas
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by alas » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:41 pm

About all the things that are not forgiveness, yes, some are about maintaining connection to the “snake”. Abused children cannot accept that their parent is abusive. It has to do with survival instinct. Children have to love and bond to their parent. Otherwise, they wander off and the tiger eats them. Just like baby ducks bond to the first living thing they see and follow it around, human babies know instinctively that if they do not have a solid love bond with the parent, they will not survive. Even when this stops being literally true, the child still feels that to not love and be loved by the parent is a death sentence. So, to accept that your parent is a rattle snake is impossible. It stays impossible until a child is about 25-39. The child blames themselves, they minimize the abuse, they deny the abuse, they do what it takes to keep following their mama duck.

Although it is easier to see in the parent child relationship, this dynamic also shows up in other relationships. I knew a man whose best friend and he went into business. Well, the guy embesseled all the money and left his partner stuck with the debt. The guy who was left stuck could not get over it because he could not accept his friend was a dishonest jerk. What would it say about himself if his judgement of other’s honesty was so faulty. So, rather than accepting his judgement in friends was bad, he tangled himself up in knots trying to defend the honesty of his dishonest friend. Everybody could see it but him. Well, he couldn’t forgive because he would not let himself get angry. You can’t “let go” of anger you won’t admit is there.

I think all of the reasons we cannot heal and thus forgive have to do with safety in the world. The rape victims who had the easiest time healing were the ones who “did something stupid” and blamed themselves. They just had to accept that doing something stupid does not mean you deserve to be raped and then learn how not to do something stupid. Pretty easy compared to the woman who was home in her own bed and someone broke into her home and raped her. How is the woman who “did everything right” to avoid rape supposed to feel safe in the world again? The girl who goes to a frat party and drinks and goes home with a jerk, then gets raped, she knows what to do to be safe in the future. Don’t go to frat parties, OR don’t get drunk, OR don’t go home with any one but your roommates. She can decide to change her behavior and she will feel safe. But the victim who cannot just change her own behavior, or taking a self defense course won’t help because he had a gun, or whatever that leaves her helpless to feel safe, she has the hardest time forgiving.

It is very hard to just accept that we are helpless to keep ourselves safe. Most of us would rather be at fault than accept that we are helpless. That is why women believe the myths about what causes rape. It is easier to blame yourself and say, “well, I will never do that again.” Or to just say, “I am safe because I will never wear immodest clothing,” than it is to accept that it really is somebody else who decides and we suffer.

Revenge is also a way to convince ourselves we are safe. Well, if I beat the living daylights out of the guy who cut me off in traffic, he will never dare do that again. Someone cuts us off and we almost get in an accident, so we get angry and want to prevent them from doing that to someone else.

See, anger is a secondary emotion. It comes after fear. We get scared sill when our child is lost in the store. So, when lost child is found, we spank them. Yup, we turned our fear of something terrible happening into anger at the child for not staying close.

So, forgiveness hinges on being safe. We have to be safe first before we can even begin to forgive.

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alas
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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by alas » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:03 pm

Angel wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:30 pm
A little bit ago there was a fb post about a recent lesson - I just looked it up, here is a quote:

"When you hold a grudge against someone, regardless of the reasons behind the grudge, your unwillingness to forgive may foster in you a sense of bitterness that can grow over time into anger or even violence. Your grudge can be compared to a snakebite—if you are bitten by a snake and spend the next moments seeking revenge, you are more likely to allow the poison to become fatal than you are if you forget about the snake and immediately seek medical attention. "

I actually argued with them on fb - said it was selfish to "forget about the snake" - that the snake would go on biting person after person after person if you were selfish enough to just worry about your own bite.

In engineering - for spill response - the first thing you do is NOT clean up the mess. The first thing you do is containment.
Steps:
1. Communicate the hazard
2. Control the spill
3. Contain the hazard
4. Clean up the spill and any damage

translated to the snake bite that would be:
1. Communicate the hazard - point at the snake, yell, alert everyone else to the nature and position of the snake
2. Control the spill - trap the snake
3. Contain the hazard - kill the snake, and put up barriers to prevent future snakes from entering the area
4. Clean up the spill and any damage - treat the snake bites that have happened.

Treatment does not happen until step #4.

Interesting, and I agree to some extent. I would say, let someone else trap the snake because if you waste time on doing it yourself you die. And if being in the desert was not full of rattle snakes and you are never going to contain all of the hazard. Too much hazard to contain. A snake bite is not like a spill of slippery stuff where more people will get hurt and broken arms from a fall can wait an hour while you assure the safety of others. And when you are in the desert, you are always aware of the danger of snakes. It isn’t like the kind of hazard you are talking about where you need to alert others to a hazard they do not expect because usually there is no hazard. In the desert there are snakes! It isn’t, oh gee, there are snakes out here as if one doesn’t know.

I would say that the real hazard is not the snake, but the poison in your body. Contain the hazard. (1) Yell to those around you that you have been bit. (2) Control the spread of poison in your body by getting out what you can and slowing the spread to your heart. On the scene first aid. (3) contain the hazard by getting further medical help. (4) clean up any long term damage.

It s like putting the sex offender in prison keeps them from hurting others, but oddly it harms the victim who told even more because she is the one who has to testify, the one facing public shame, and the anger of those around the offender. No, that first victim needs to be put in therapy whether or not the perp goes to prison. She was bit by the snake and needs medical care whether or not you bother protecting others. But hopefully, we can do both. Just don’t make that first victim take all the responsibility of catching the snake, but let the police do it while you get her help to heal.

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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Angel » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:16 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:03 pm
Interesting, and I agree to some extent. I would say, let someone else trap the snake because if you waste time on doing it yourself you die. And if being in the desert was not full of rattle snakes and you are never going to contain all of the hazard. Too much hazard to contain. A snake bite is not like a spill of slippery stuff where more people will get hurt and broken arms from a fall can wait an hour while you assure the safety of others. And when you are in the desert, you are always aware of the danger of snakes. It isn’t like the kind of hazard you are talking about where you need to alert others to a hazard they do not expect because usually there is no hazard. In the desert there are snakes! It isn’t, oh gee, there are snakes out here as if one doesn’t know.

I would say that the real hazard is not the snake, but the poison in your body. Contain the hazard. (1) Yell to those around you that you have been bit. (2) Control the spread of poison in your body by getting out what you can and slowing the spread to your heart. On the scene first aid. (3) contain the hazard by getting further medical help. (4) clean up any long term damage.

It s like putting the sex offender in prison keeps them from hurting others, but oddly it harms the victim who told even more because she is the one who has to testify, the one facing public shame, and the anger of those around the offender. No, that first victim needs to be put in therapy whether or not the perp goes to prison. She was bit by the snake and needs medical care whether or not you bother protecting others. But hopefully, we can do both. Just don’t make that first victim take all the responsibility of catching the snake, but let the police do it while you get her help to heal.
Communication I think is the #1 thing to do - no one is an island, most will not get through anything on their own. It takes a tribe, and communication is the real start to solving problems and healing wounds.

Another thought...
Forgiveness vs. deciding not to allow others to control your emotional well-being. It does not have to be called "forgiveness".

Forgiveness - sometimes this is connotative with letting go of punishment, not administering consequences for actions, with wishing the offender well and trying to make the offender feel better - forgiveness is for the offender, to make the offender feel better.

Deciding not to be controlled by another - you can decide not to be an angry person, not to let others bring you down etc. without calling it forgiveness. This type of mindset is 100% for the victim. You simply decide that you are going to be a happy person, that you will not allow some things to touch you. It has nothing to do with the offender, it is completely about what type of person you want to be and what type of life you want to live.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Off-day thoughts on forgiveness

Post by Hopebeat » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:43 pm

Growing up, it always felt odd to have to say I’m sorry the very second I did something wrong. It felt wrong to dismiss my hurt feelings just because the person that did me wrong gave me a half-hearted apology. Forgiveness needs to happen when you’re ready. And now I’m convinced that forgiveness, it’s no longer holding on to wrong doing. It’s letting go of the need to be right.
...
I’m sorry.
Please forgive me.
Thank you.
I love you.
...

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