After 10 years, I finally did it

[lostintime]

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't posted in a while. I hangout a lot more these days over on reddit, but at the end of the day, this place still feels like home.

As memory serves, I joined the old board sometime in 2008. I took the mantra to "take it slow" to quite an extreme, being content to exist in the church and just be happy despite having nuanced beliefs at best. I must admit though, the passing of years slowly eroded my tolerance of the church, and I started to find the meetings more and more annoying. About a year ago, I found that I could no longer tolerate Sunday school. There were just too many issues that pushed my buttons, and I started driving home or finding something else to do for this hour. I serve in the YM Presidency, and have a great group in there, so I've been happy to continue to work with them, giving NOMish lessons where I mainly try to let them have a conversation, providing input on happiness, tolerance, and Christlike love where I see fit. There were many things that happened over the years where I thought, that's it, its time to just be done. But each time, as my emotions settled and I further considered, it just didn't feel like the right time. That finally changed when Sam was excommunicated for fighting against ecclesiastical sexual abuse of the youth and children in the church. Once again, I waited a week to try to let things settle, but even then, I still felt like this time, I couldn't just let things go.

So yesterday evening, I finally told my wife that I no longer believed. I assured her that I still loved her, that I still loved the kids, and that I wasn't planning to change my behavior in any significant way (She's been very accepting of my NOMish views over the years, so most of my behavioral changes had already taken place). There were just things about the church's past and present that I couldn't accept. I told her that I had no plans to tell anyone else at the moment, that I was happy to support her in the church in any way that I could, and that I didn't think less of her because of her belief. She asked about my thoughts on the Temple, the Book of Mormon, of Joseph Smith, and of prayer. I answered that I didn't believe in any of the first three. I answered that I enjoyed prayer for the chance to reflect, to express gratitude, and to draw closer together as a family, but also believed that there were many prayers out there that needed answered far more than mine, and if there is a deity out there answering prayers, I'd prefer he answer those over mine right now. Overall, it went really well, particularly compared to other experiences I've read over the years. It definitely shook her a little bit. She was worried that it was because of something she did (which I assured her was not the case). But in the end, she agreed I was still the same person, and that she still loved me. I'm still a little nervous about what the future holds, but after 10 years, it felt good to have the conversation. I plan to continue to move slowly, unless my wife hops on board, at which point I'm happy to move as fast as she wants. But until then, I just thought I'd share.

[Wonderment]

Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for your message. Sounds like a productive and hopeful conversation with your wife. You've done well to go patiently and slowly in order to accommodate her belief system. Best wishes for the future, and please keep us posted, from Wndr.

[Red Ryder]

Congratulations.

I took nearly 8 years to tell me wife but I capped my unbelief at 80% in order to give myself room to wiggle.

I also didn't make any drastic behavior changes other than cutting off the church from my bank account and buying new underwear.

It's been very difficult since because I often hear the dramatic phrase " I would have never married you if...." when differing opinions about the church manifest at times. The worst part is our differences aren't even major moral differences. We still both hold similar core beliefs!

For the most part we've made our mixed faith marriage work only because I still participate as a 2 hour a week Mormon. I still keep up most appearances of active status. Its tolerable for now although it's like an annoying gnat buzzing around called the church that i just can't get rid of.

I hope you two can make it work. If I could go back and do it differently I would add a "right to exit" clause in my disclosure to her and tell her that I will reserve the right to quit going altogether if I so decided but that I would discuss it with her in advance and weigh the benefits/consequences accordingly.

Keep is updated!

[Hagoth]

Great to hear from you, lostintime! Good luck with everything. My personal experience is that after you get over the initial landmines the road bumps tend to get smoother over time.

[Anon70]

Mixed faith marriages can be hard—best of luck!!

[lostintime]

The hardest thing for me is seeing her cry and knowing its because of me, but she assures me that she's glad I told her. I had another conversation with her last night. She expressed that she feels like she's a bad wife for not recognizing that I had stopped believing (when we first got married, I was pretty TBM). She's also afraid that I've been miserable this whole time while pretending to believe, and that I'll resent her for that. I assured her that I've been happy the entire time (which is a big part of why I was able to go so slow), and that it was my choice, so I had no right to resent her for it. I let her know that her and the kids were the most important things to me, and that my lack of belief in the church didn't change that. I can tell she's still struggling with it, and imagine it will take months not days to really come to terms, but I'm still hopeful.

Also, its great seeing everyone that's still hanging around.

[IT_Veteran]

Thank you for sharing your journey. I struggled with unbelief for a few years, but I don't know I could have kept it up for 10. One of the things my own wife related to me was the worry that if I could change my mind about the church, could I change my mind about her too? Getting over that fear was a big step for us. I assured her that my feelings hadn't changed for her, but it still took time for her to realize that.

[MalcolmVillager]

Huge milestone for you! Nice job, and congrats for having a great wife. Your story is so similar to mine. I didn't go quite as slow. But it was about 3 years of not telling her anything, 2 years of doubts, and then some real candid conversations. DW has now started down her own journey. Her experience is different but overall she is progressing faster than I did. I suppose that is expected for the 2nd spouse.

Anyway, congrats. Double down on the love and commitment as she will need to feel that from you.

[Jac]

So yesterday evening, I finally told my wife that I no longer believed.

I just had the exact same experience two weeks ago! Your story is almost identical to mine, but I only waited 5 years instead of 10.

It's kind of a surreal experience isn't it? As I was telling my wife I was thinking, I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I had pretended to be TBM for so long that I had somehow hoped it would stick. You know, maybe I'd wake up one day and find out all my doubts were foolishness and my struggles would be a distant memory.

Sam Young was the catalyst for me as well. I don't know why, but his experience finally woke me up and I was able to admit that there is no way this church could be God's one true church led by Christ himself. I don't see Jesus' trademark love and compassion in our policies and teachings. Everything seems to be about control and asserting authority over us. A few months ago I finally let go of the fantasy that I would one day discover it was true.

My wife took it fairly well. She even said she'd rather have me lose my testimony than cheat on her or look at porn. I took that as a good sign (thankfully I'm not a porn consumer or adulterer - sorry to break the stereotype). She still gets emotional as she processes what this all means for our future.

I love my wife. I honestly feel like I hit the jackpot when I married her. She's beautiful and one of the sweetest women I know. I'm grateful she is committed to staying by my side.

This is a scary journey we just embarked on isn't it?

[Reuben]

Congratulations, you two!

(Hmmm... that sounded less gay in my head.)

Now, a piece of unsolicited advice for both of you: be sensitive to the asymmetry between your experience and your spouse's.

For you, it might feel like a blessed relief: after all these years, you can finally stop pretending. Maybe more importantly, you already grieved your losses years ago, but your spouse is grieving right now. Make sure you stay aware of this, because it's easy for grief to turn into resentment. "How can he be so happy when I'm so miserable?"

This asymmetry is really common. A poster on r/exmormon is dealing with it today. It happens whenever a deeply closeted spouse comes out as gay, too.

[lostintime]

Congratulations, you two!

(Hmmm... that sounded less gay in my head.)

Now, a piece of unsolicited advice for both of you: be sensitive to the asymmetry between your experience and your spouse's.

For you, it might feel like a blessed relief: after all these years, you can finally stop pretending. Maybe more importantly, you already grieved your losses years ago, but your spouse is grieving right now. Make sure you stay aware of this, because it's easy for grief to turn into resentment. "How can he be so happy when I'm so miserable?"

This asymmetry is really common. A poster on r/exmormon is dealing with it today. It happens whenever a deeply closeted spouse comes out as gay, too.

Unfortunately, thus far I haven't really experienced any kind of relief. If anything, I'm a little bit more stressed, worrying about how my wife is processing this. On the plus side, it has been good for our communication. When everything is just humming along just fine in a marriage, its easy to get lazy communicating with your spouse. But longer term, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'm sure I'll adjust faster than she will, and it will be important not to get complacent with my patience and understanding.

[lostintime]

I just had the exact same experience two weeks ago! Your story is almost identical to mine, but I only waited 5 years instead of 10.

It's kind of a surreal experience isn't it? As I was telling my wife I was thinking, I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I had pretended to be TBM for so long that I had somehow hoped it would stick. You know, maybe I'd wake up one day and find out all my doubts were foolishness and my struggles would be a distant memory.

Sam Young was the catalyst for me as well. I don't know why, but his experience finally woke me up and I was able to admit that there is no way this church could be God's one true church led by Christ himself. I don't see Jesus' trademark love and compassion in our policies and teachings. Everything seems to be about control and asserting authority over us. A few months ago I finally let go of the fantasy that I would one day discover it was true.

My wife took it fairly well. She even said she'd rather have me lose my testimony than cheat on her or look at porn. I took that as a good sign (thankfully I'm not a porn consumer or adulterer - sorry to break the stereotype). She still gets emotional as she processes what this all means for our future.

I love my wife. I honestly feel like I hit the jackpot when I married her. She's beautiful and one of the sweetest women I know. I'm grateful she is committed to staying by my side.

This is a scary journey we just embarked on isn't it?

Yeah, it is. I just hope it works out well. I had high hopes for the outcome of telling my wife. I don't have the same feelings about telling my parents. I only have one kid left younger than 8, and I wondered if I should wait until he was baptized in hopes that I could then fade away without telling my parents, but then I'd have to wait until after my son turned 12, and there is always something else just around the corner.

[Jac]

Lostintime, I'm terrified to tell my mom (my dad passed away many years ago) because all my other siblings have already left the church. I am her last hope for carrying the torch to her posterity. She has told me many times how I'm her rock, and has turned to me many times when she has struggled with many things in life. Telling her I no longer believe will hurt her immensely. It will devastate her. Crush her. I can't bring myself to do it.

I also have my in-laws to deal with. They are very judgmental and all their kids are active in the church so this will be new territory for them. They will not handle it well. They may even apply pressure on my wife to divorce me. I wouldn't be surprised.

Can I hide it from them? I think the only way I could pull that off would be to move far away. Trust me, I'm tempted to get a job on the east coast that will ensure we only see them once every few years.

I also have only one kid left under 8 and have contemplated what I'm going to do and what the fallout will be. It is tempting to just go through the motions to appease everyone.

Do I tell my kids? Or, do I let them be indoctrinated like I was, only to feel betrayed when the narrative they are fed does not line up with reality. Then, on top of that, find out their dad knew all along and was silent.

This is quite the pickle and at this point I don't know what to do. I am in a situation where 90% of the people in my life will turn on me if I come forward. I do not like attention and I do not like conflict. I am trapped.

[lostintime]

Lostintime, I'm terrified to tell my mom (my dad passed away many years ago) because all my other siblings have already left the church. I am her last hope for carrying the torch to her posterity. She has told me many times how I'm her rock, and has turned to me many times when she has struggled with many things in life. Telling her I no longer believe will hurt her immensely. It will devastate her. Crush her. I can't bring myself to do it.

I also have my in-laws to deal with. They are very judgmental and all their kids are active in the church so this will be new territory for them. They will not handle it well. They may even apply pressure on my wife to divorce me. I wouldn't be surprised.

Can I hide it from them? I think the only way I could pull that off would be to move far away. Trust me, I'm tempted to get a job on the east coast that will ensure we only see them once every few years.

I also have only one kid left under 8 and have contemplated what I'm going to do and what the fallout will be. It is tempting to just go through the motions to appease everyone.

Do I tell my kids? Or, do I let them be indoctrinated like I was, only to feel betrayed when the narrative they are fed does not line up with reality. Then, on top of that, find out their dad knew all along and was silent.

This is quite the pickle and at this point I don't know what to do. I am in a situation where 90% of the people in my life will turn on me if I come forward. I do not like attention and I do not like conflict. I am trapped.

Yep, that sums it up nicely. For now, I go to Sacrament meeting, skip Sunday school, then go to YMs for my calling where I feel like I can have a positive influence. I can at least help my kids view mormonism through a more progressive lens, but I still wonder how they'll feel when they discover what I haven't been saying. I am curious how my wife will feel when my last son is old enough for baptism. I imagine she'd still be okay with me doing it (assuming I'm not out to the broader world at that point) since she knows I baptized our other kids while not believing. I am fortunate that I don't think my in laws would care too much. My wife is the only child that is really all in active I think, and they don't travel to see their grand kids big church events like my parents do. So there is that. On the other hand, my parents like to attend every church mile stone for their grand kids. They've made it pretty clear from when cousins have left that they'd rather just not know, but at the same time I don't know how I'd keep it from them if we left completely. We're far enough away that we don't see them often, but we do see them a couple of times a year. Its such a tangle. A few times I've thought, "Screw trying to please everyone," but other than church, I really do have great parents that have great relationships with my kids. Its tough.

[profit_seizer]

I also have only one kid left under 8 and have contemplated what I'm going to do and what the fallout will be. It is tempting to just go through the motions to appease everyone.

Yeeeeep, I have two under the age of 8 and this is going to be super hard. I think my bishop will let me do the baptism (both parts, even) even though I don't plan on going back to church ever again.

Do I tell my kids? Or, do I let them be indoctrinated like I was, only to feel betrayed when the narrative they are fed does not line up with reality. Then, on top of that, find out their dad knew all along and was silent.

Also right there. This is complicated by the fact that I also disagree with the US History material they are being taught in school. (We homeschool, but it turns out there's not really a "People's History for K-8" out there lol.) So I feel like I'm just here thinking "aaaah, nothing anyone's telling you is true, and I feel like the wild-eyed town idiot for even thinking of contradicting that". So I say what I can (the history/politics stuff is easier to say than the church stuff), and I teach the kids to examine the facts they're presented with a critical and analytical eye. When they get older (maybe the 9 year old is old enough, maybe not), I'll probably tell them my opinions about the church.

I do not like attention and I do not like conflict. I am trapped.

Many of us here are trapped, if that helps.

[Red Ryder]

I also have only one kid left under 8 and have contemplated what I'm going to do and what the fallout will be. It is tempting to just go through the motions to appease everyone.

Yeeeeep, I have two under the age of 8 and this is going to be super hard. I think my bishop will let me do the baptism (both parts, even) even though I don't plan on going back to church ever again.

Do I tell my kids? Or, do I let them be indoctrinated like I was, only to feel betrayed when the narrative they are fed does not line up with reality. Then, on top of that, find out their dad knew all along and was silent.

...snip...

I do not like attention and I do not like conflict. I am trapped.

Many of us here are trapped, if that helps.

Yet our cage doors are unlocked. All we have to do is walk out, right?

What if there was a way to leave the cage then only go back when needed? Be mormon when you need to be mormon?

I've found that dilution goes a long way. I've never told my immediate family, I've only openly told them I don't wear it on my sleeve and I think there's a lot of bad cultural things that annoy me. I don't define the distance between point A and B and let them connect their own dots. The best explanation they get from me is that "I think the temple is weird".

I guess in some ways it's not an authentic life, but how many of us are truly living a 100% authentic life? Have we all told our employers that working 40 hours a week sucks? Have we all shed our clothes and gone naked? Do we only eat Pizza and drink beer 100% of the time? No, we live and love within some for of constraints, right?

We have to figure out how to dilute and tolerate family pressure while becoming indifferent to the church. Or we stop caring what the hell others think and we walk away!

[lostintime]

I guess in some ways it's not an authentic life, but how many of us are truly living a 100% authentic life? Have we all told our employers that working 40 hours a week sucks? Have we all shed our clothes and gone naked? Do we only eat Pizza and drink beer 100% of the time? No, we live and love within some for of constraints, right?

We have to figure out how to dilute and tolerate family pressure while becoming indifferent to the church. Or we stop caring what the hell others think and we walk away!

I am fortunate that I've never had issues with the authentic life side of things. I agree, the vast majority of people censor themselves to some degree or other. I feel fortunate that for me, even as a believing member, the church wasn't what I considered a defining trait. I do think my next step is going to be to start trying to dilute the church in my life. When there's a Monday holiday, see if my wife will go for ditching church so that we can enjoy the long weekend.

[crazyhamster]

Congrats, lostintime! I’m glad to hear that it went pretty well, and I hope that things will only get better.

[stealthbishop]

Congratulations LIT!

That’s a tough conversation to have. I’m so glad you have a spouse that is so supportive and I think how you handled it was just right!