New Wendy Nelson video is giving me a serious case of the heebie jeebies

[jfro18]

I know I'm very distrusting of the church and incredibly cynical in general, but this video of Wendy is just creepy to me.

https://youtu.be/JfP8bCLmwQI

She literally says that she knew that dating RMN (who was pursuing her) was wrong because he is 26 years older and was still grieving his wife but that she prayed until she got a spiritual witness...

It just reminds me so much of Joseph's polygamous wives. They all knew it was wrong too until they prayed.

But more to the point - just listening to the interviews with Wendy... she knew exactly what she was getting into and I have no doubt loved the idea of getting married to a 'prophet-in-waiting.'

Anyway... this video makes me sad because women will see it and think it's so sweet, when I look at it and think of Joseph's women *and* how Wendy sold her chance at a loving marriage for a power play.

[moksha]

I can understand Sister Wendy's hesitancy to marry a man 26 years older than her. Such an age discrepancy conjures up images of Donald Trump and Melania Knaves, Anna Nicole Smith and Howard Marshall, or even Joseph Smith and Helen Marr Kimball.

However, it is required that an Apostle be married, so the heavens opened up and convinced her to go for it. She could have her former partner Sheri Dew live right next door and accompany them on vacations, the heavens told her, so that life would still be tolerable. The rest, as they say, is either history or fable.

[Red Ryder]

Out of ALL of the content on the planet and you chose to watch that?

Maybe it’s a set up for the next “adjustment” RMN is going to unleash?

Unpopular opinion here: I like Wendy!

She brings a new level of weirdness the church has never seen before. What if she’s the driving force behind all the change?

Russ, no GOMI unless church is 2 hours long!

None!

Nope!

2 hours gives you 1 hour to get me out of my garments...

[jfro18]

Out of ALL of the content on the planet and you chose to watch that?

I saw it posted on reddit and since it was only 3 minutes I figured I'd see what the fuss was about.

2 hours gives you 1 hour to get me out of my garments...

[Not Buying It]

Sister Nelson is what happens when a rabid self-promoter gets the shot of a lifetime at being the queen of the Mormon world. She’s full of crap when she says she knew dating then-Elder Nelson was wrong until she prayed for a spiritual witness - she didn’t second guess it for a second. She craved the opportunity for the attention she’s getting now.

She’s the ultimate Mormon golddigger who hit paydirt.

[wtfluff]

... She’s full of crap when she says she knew dating then-Elder Nelson was wrong until she prayed for a spiritual witness - she didn’t second guess it for a second. She craved the opportunity for the attention she’s getting now.

She’s the ultimate Mormon golddigger who hit paydirt.

Agreed. I'm reminded of "that one" saying every time I hear of one of Aunt Wendy's "quotes:" How do you know when Aunt Wendy is lying? Her lips are moving.

[Not Buying It]

... She’s full of crap when she says she knew dating then-Elder Nelson was wrong until she prayed for a spiritual witness - she didn’t second guess it for a second. She craved the opportunity for the attention she’s getting now.

She’s the ultimate Mormon golddigger who hit paydirt.

Agreed. I'm reminded of "that one" saying every time I hear of one of Aunt Wendy's "quotes:" How do you know when Aunt Wendy is lying? Her lips are moving.

I’m surprised at all of the people over on Reddit talking about how bad they feel about her being pressured or manipulated into marrying a much older man. She wasn’t some brainwashed 14 year old whose brainwashed family allowed the President of the Church to suck her in with a story about an angel with a drawn sword. She was an attention fiend before she ever married President Nelson, and was well-connected enough via her close friend Sheri Dew to be in his circle of acquaintance so she’d have a shot at this.

This video is nothing but propaganda and theatre. And it’s dangerous really - the central message is that if you have serious reservations about something you should ignore them if you starve yourself for three days and get a good feeling about it. This is a dangerous message for people faced with difficult choices. Lucky for Sister Nelson her whole story is BS and rather than having strong reservations it was her ticket to getting exactly what she wanted.

By the way, note how the video deflects criticism that she was a golddigger, God called her to be the wife of a GA, she herself had nothing to do with it. The underlying message is that she is where she is because God wants her there. Isn’t that special?

[jfro18]

By the way, note how the video deflects criticism that she was a golddigger, God called her to be the wife of a GA, she herself had nothing to do with it. The underlying message is that she is where she is because God wants her there. Isn’t that special?

Yep. I feel bad criticizing it not because I have any sympathy for Wendy, but because I'm a man talking about how toxic this idea is for women, and I know that gets people into trouble.

But she knew exactly what she was doing and church doctrine is that you need to be married in the temple for exaltation -- wtf would Wendy want more than a prophet-in-waiting?

It's taking something that is obviously gross (woman marrying a guy 26 years older than her who is still grieving his first wife while pursuing her), and trying to turn it into some sort of revelation just as Joseph's polygamous women did.

[Fifi de la Vergne]

I'm not a Wendy fan at all. But I am amazed at folks' ability to read her character, desires and intentions, and interpret her life history in such detail. It rivals the ability of my ward members to read and make judgements on my character and life history based on an even closer degree of familiarity.

[Red Ryder]

I'm not a Wendy fan at all. But I am amazed at folks' ability to read her character, desires and intentions, and interpret her life history in such detail. It rivals the ability of my ward members to read and make judgements on my character and life history based on an even closer degree of familiarity.

Mic drop!

You’re right. I have no idea if it takes an hour to get her out of her garments.

[Not Buying It]

I'm not a Wendy fan at all. But I am amazed at folks' ability to read her character, desires and intentions, and interpret her life history in such detail. It rivals the ability of my ward members to read and make judgements on my character and life history based on an even closer degree of familiarity.

Wendy Watson Nelson has made herself a public figure. She was featured in a publicly released video wherein she makes claims about receiving revelation that influence other people in the Church. I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with looking at the available evidence and critically evaluating her claims based on the evidence. In fact, I think it would be a horrible idea to take her claims at face value.

What do we know about Sister Nelson? She made herself an “influencer” in the world of Mormonism prior to her marriage to President Nelson, I don’t think it unfair to infer that an increased influence in the world of Mormonism was a factor in her decision to marry him. In the video she claims she found the age difference troubling, but it wasn’t any random 81 year old man who asked her to marry him - it was a leader in a powerful organization, the most powerful organization in the state she lives in, and a guy with a good chance of being the top leader in her religion someday. Are we all just supposed to believe she didn’t take any of that into consideration?

So the Church releases a video where she claims revelation told her to marry the one of the most powerful men in her religion and we are all supposed to believe she was deeply troubled by the idea and it was only after three days of fasting at the summer home she owned with Sherri Dew she came to know it was God’s will? And the example we are all supposed to follow is to fast and pray when we have troubling decisions to make, usually without the options she had in her decisions that would give us access to power, wealth, fame, and world travel? What influence does this video have on the young woman who receives offers of marriage from a persistent young man she has strong reservations about?

I’m not trying to critically evaluate someone’s personal life. I’m trying to evaluate someone’s public statements that could potentially influence the behavior of people I love very much. And based on what I see I call BS on this story, and would advise those I love to give it no heed. I don’t think it unfair to infer she is not being completely forthright on all of the factors that went into her decision to marry him. Nor do I think it unfair to infer that much of her expressed supposed reluctance was mitigated by some of those factors.

You are absolutely correct that I don’t really know her character, desires, and emotions. But I think it would be a mistake to not make some judgments about the claims she is making without doing some critical evaluation based on what I do know.

After all - would she have married some random 81 year old who pursued her? Of course not.

[jfro18]

I'm not a Wendy fan at all. But I am amazed at folks' ability to read her character, desires and intentions, and interpret her life history in such detail. It rivals the ability of my ward members to read and make judgements on my character and life history based on an even closer degree of familiarity.

Fair enough, but I've avoided criticizing Wendy beyond this thread... so I suppose I'm critiquing both Wendy's comments against what we can see and then the way the church is framing this.

It's a power marriage like you see in politics... it's a celestial Donald and Melania situation going on here (except their age difference is actually smaller than RMN and Wendy).

[Fifi de la Vergne]

Wendy Watson Nelson has made herself a public figure. She was featured in a publicly released video wherein she makes claims about receiving revelation that influence other people in the Church. I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with looking at the available evidence and critically evaluating her claims based on the evidence. In fact, I think it would be a horrible idea to take her claims at face value.

I’m not trying to critically evaluate someone’s personal life. I’m trying to evaluate someone’s public statements that could potentially influence the behavior of people I love very much. And based on what I see I call BS on this story, and would advise those I love to give it no heed. I don’t think it unfair to infer she is not being completely forthright on all of the factors that went into her decision to marry him. Nor do I think it unfair to infer that much of her expressed supposed reluctance was mitigated by some of those factors.

You are absolutely correct that I don’t really know her character, desires, and emotions. But I think it would be a mistake to not make some judgments about the claims she is making without doing some critical evaluation based on what I do know.

After all - would she have married some random 81 year old who pursued her? Of course not.

I agree with the above -- nothing wrong with critically evaluating what she's claiming. I have to disagree that the following isn't a pretty personal assessment of someone's character and motivations:

Sister Nelson is what happens when a rabid self-promoter gets the shot of a lifetime at being the queen of the Mormon world. She’s full of crap when she says she knew dating then-Elder Nelson was wrong until she prayed for a spiritual witness - she didn’t second guess it for a second. She craved the opportunity for the attention she’s getting now.

She’s the ultimate Mormon golddigger who hit paydirt.

I thought her books on personal purity and intimacy and the horrible "Not Even Once Club" were awful and damaging. I strongly disagree with the notion that fasting and prayer should be used to talk ourselves into agreeing with things that we have an immediate, visceral feeling of wrongness for. I don't know whether she's lying about her reservations when considering marriage to RMN -- but neither do you. I just don't get the special level of vitriol that seems to be reserved for this woman in particular.

[Not Buying It]

Wendy Watson Nelson has made herself a public figure. She was featured in a publicly released video wherein she makes claims about receiving revelation that influence other people in the Church. I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with looking at the available evidence and critically evaluating her claims based on the evidence. In fact, I think it would be a horrible idea to take her claims at face value.

I’m not trying to critically evaluate someone’s personal life. I’m trying to evaluate someone’s public statements that could potentially influence the behavior of people I love very much. And based on what I see I call BS on this story, and would advise those I love to give it no heed. I don’t think it unfair to infer she is not being completely forthright on all of the factors that went into her decision to marry him. Nor do I think it unfair to infer that much of her expressed supposed reluctance was mitigated by some of those factors.

You are absolutely correct that I don’t really know her character, desires, and emotions. But I think it would be a mistake to not make some judgments about the claims she is making without doing some critical evaluation based on what I do know.

After all - would she have married some random 81 year old who pursued her? Of course not.

I agree with the above -- nothing wrong with critically evaluating what she's claiming. I have to disagree that the following isn't a pretty personal assessment of someone's character and motivations:

Sister Nelson is what happens when a rabid self-promoter gets the shot of a lifetime at being the queen of the Mormon world. She’s full of crap when she says she knew dating then-Elder Nelson was wrong until she prayed for a spiritual witness - she didn’t second guess it for a second. She craved the opportunity for the attention she’s getting now.

She’s the ultimate Mormon golddigger who hit paydirt.

I thought her books on personal purity and intimacy and the horrible "Not Even Once Club" were awful and damaging. I strongly disagree with the notion that fasting and prayer should be used to talk ourselves into agreeing with things that we have an immediate, visceral feeling of wrongness for. I don't know whether she's lying about her reservations when considering marriage to RMN -- but neither do you. I just don't get the special level of vitriol that seems to be reserved for this woman in particular.

Fair enough. I don’t know for sure whether she is lying - based on what I see, I think she is. But you have a fair point, I don’t really know that.

As to the level of vitriol, it is due to the very things you mention in that last paragraph. Sister Nelson is someone who promulgates toxic ideas to an accepting audience, and in my view has maneuvered herself into a position that lends those toxic ideas more credence and wider distribution. I feel even more vitriolic when the Brethren use their positions to promote ideas that are damaging, because those ideas carry even more weight due to their positions of authority.

She troubles me deeply because she is a person who promotes ideas I find very dangerous, and whether by intent or mere circumstance is now in a position to spread those ideas more widely. I think it was intentional, an extension and enhancement of what she was already doing before she married an apostle. To your point, I can’t prove she is lying about why she married President Nelson or how troubled she was about the idea, but I don’t think she would have bothered with three days of fasting for most 81 year old men who pursued her, it would have been a quick and easy “no”. In my view, it was a calculated move to increase her sphere of influence, although I can’t prove that.

[wtfluff]

I just don't get the special level of vitriol that seems to be reserved for this woman in particular.

Available evidence show that Wendy is a "MORmON" gold-digger.

And then LD$-Inc. comes out with a cute little video to try and "prove" that she's not a gold-digger?

No, I don't "know" anything about Wendy, I'm just calling what I see as a spade, a spade. After having this sort of harmful propaganda shoved down my throat growing up, and believing much of it for way too many years, it causes a bit of vitriol to come out.

[Red Ryder]

I’m going to suggest she’s not a gold digger.

She was probably chugging along in Mormon life as a lonely single adult, questioning her whereabouts on the Covenant Path, and extremely worried about her eternal progression to the Celestial Kingdom.

She lived a chase life, never had an inappropriate sexual thought, glance, or experience other than the acquisition of clinical sexual knowledge through education contrary to the teachings of her church.

According to the teachings of her church, she was a failure as a women, bound to be a celestial handmaid for the eternities until Russell M Nelson came calling.

So it’s wrong to call her a gold digger when all she was doing was responding to God’s foreordained plan for her which was to be the SECOND wife of the Prophet, the gatekeeper to late night bedroom revelation, and a social media influencer!

Besides, how do we know Kirton McKonkie didn’t write up a prenuptial agreement and make her sign it in between receiving the 1st and 2nd Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood?

[jfro18]

According to the teachings of her church, she was a failure as a women, bound to be a celestial handmaid for the eternities until Russell M Nelson came calling.

So it’s wrong to call her a gold digger when all she was doing was responding to God’s foreordained plan for her which was to be the SECOND wife of the Prophet, the gatekeeper to late night bedroom revelation, and a social media influencer!

I agree with this 100% even if RR was possibly being sarcastic

Let's say she wasn't seeking out a marriage to a high profile leader... the fact is that until Mormon doctrine she was a failure as a 55 year old single woman with no children.

So why would she hesitate at the chance to get married when otherwise she would be nothing more than a ministering angel to those wives of polygamous marriages up in the CK?

Wendy is why Mormonism is damaging to women, and so even if you agree she had pure reasons it's still wrapped up in some really harmful teachings.

And, for the record, I absolutely think Wendy was jumping at the chance for that kind of status. I don't know her inner thoughts, but I do not think for a second she was concerned that it was wrong to marry Nelson because that was her ticket to the CK was a polygamous prophet... that's the Mormon dream, right?!

[Fifi de la Vergne]

So it’s wrong to call her a gold digger when all she was doing was responding to God’s foreordained plan for her which was to be the SECOND wife of the Prophet, the gatekeeper to late night bedroom revelation, and a social media influencer!

You made me laugh as usual, RR -- but I also think you nailed it. Every time I see that ridiculous photo of RMN on the swing she gave him, I feel a little nauseated . . . and very sad. I absolutely believe her when she says she recoiled at the idea of marrying this old man. I was single until my mid-thirties, and I still remember the fear I had that I was going to be someone's second wife. At one point, I had one of those strong spiritual impressions that I was supposed to marry a man I knew for whom I felt ZERO attraction, and I Just. Couldn't. Do. It. And worried for another 10 years about what it meant for my eternity that I hadn't married him. Prospects are bleak for older single women in TSCC no matter how you look at it.

So I'm coming from a really different place than a lot of you when I think about Wendy Nelson. I don't think her marriage was a power-grab, or at least I wouldn't put it in those terms. More charitably, I would say that she may have seen her marriage to an apostle as a means of witnessing to more people and being more of an example. I think Red Ryder is spot on about her loneliness and feelings of failure. You can't help but feel those things as a single woman over 25 in the LDS church. She was a woman who had made a name for herself and had some influence already when she married him, and when I look at her I see a woman trying to make the best of her situation.

edited for clarity

[Fifi de la Vergne]

And, for the record, I absolutely think Wendy was jumping at the chance for that kind of status. I don't know her inner thoughts, but I do not think for a second she was concerned that it was wrong to marry Nelson because that was her ticket to the CK was a polygamous prophet... that's the Mormon dream, right?!

I don't believe this is most Mormon women's dream. Maybe some would see it as a consolation for not marrying someone they really loved, but it's a very weak consolation for not marrying someone you loved and desired.

[Not Buying It]

Many of you have brought up a good point - perhaps I have not been sympathetic enough to the situation of a sister in her mid-50s in a religion when the unforgiving expectation is that you are married in your 20s. Perhaps gold digger is a harsh pejorative to use in this situation. I still don't think she would have married just any old man, and while I have no evidence I strongly suspect she is exaggerating her feelings of ambivalence about his proposal. But the fact that she was a woman in her 50s unmarried in the Church should not be discounted any more than the fact that she married someone rich and powerful.

It is also true that she has taken the only route a Mormon woman has to any real power in the Church - the Women's Auxiliary Presidencies are just puppets, ready to parrot whatever the Brethren tell them. Whatever else I think of Sister Nelson, whether intentional or not she finds herself in the one place any Mormon woman has much of a chance of having any real influence on the organization.

She has used that influence to do some pretty toxic things - write and promote "What Would a Holy Woman Do?". "The Not Even Once Club", etc. She promotes a particularly harmful version of Mormonism. Perhaps that's why I have such strong feelings about her.