New TR question

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Random
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Re: New TR question

Post by Random » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:16 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:45 am
How about the new question on keeping the Sabbath Day holy at home and at church. What does that mean to keep it holy at church?
. . . . ordering a pizza to be delivered to the EQ meeting on Sunday afternoon . . .
:lol: :lol:

Pizza party!!
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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fetchface
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Re: New TR question

Post by fetchface » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:04 am

2bizE wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:45 am
How about the new question on keeping the Sabbath Day holy at home and at church. What does that mean to keep it holy at church?
Would ordering a pizza to be delivered to the EQ meeting on Sunday afternoon and watching the football game on your phone be considered not keeping it holy at church?
I think what they are doing is very subtle here. They are trying to imply that keeping the sabbath holy means making your home life on Sunday like church all day.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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alas
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Re: New TR question

Post by alas » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:43 am

fetchface wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:04 am
2bizE wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:45 am
How about the new question on keeping the Sabbath Day holy at home and at church. What does that mean to keep it holy at church?
Would ordering a pizza to be delivered to the EQ meeting on Sunday afternoon and watching the football game on your phone be considered not keeping it holy at church?
I think what they are doing is very subtle here. They are trying to imply that keeping the sabbath holy means making your home life on Sunday like church all day.
My husband tried that idea of keeping the Sabbath by trying to make home on Sunday like church back when we had small children. That was exhausting to me as mother. He goes off to study scriptures and I get to keep three small children, in the house, in their Sunday clothes, and being reverent so he could study scriptures. And still cook the meals, and keep child #1 from destroying her Sunday clothing. That little girl was never meant to wear pretty tights and a pretty dress. She usually destroyed them walking from the car across the parking lot to go to church. Climbing the curtains and leaping to the couch isn’t very good activities for church clothes. Or we have FHE lesson and the other child screams all the way through it (we didn’t know it then, but she is on the autism spectrum, and sitting and listening wasn’t her talent.) About the second week, I was ready to kill him.

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Emower
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Re: New TR question

Post by Emower » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:30 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:43 am
My husband tried that idea of keeping the Sabbath by trying to make home on Sunday like church back when we had small children. That was exhausting to me as mother. He goes off to study scriptures and I get to keep three small children, in the house, in their Sunday clothes, and being reverent so he could study scriptures. And still cook the meals, and keep child #1 from destroying her Sunday clothing. That little girl was never meant to wear pretty tights and a pretty dress. She usually destroyed them walking from the car across the parking lot to go to church. Climbing the curtains and leaping to the couch isn’t very good activities for church clothes. Or we have FHE lesson and the other child screams all the way through it (we didn’t know it then, but she is on the autism spectrum, and sitting and listening wasn’t her talent.) About the second week, I was ready to kill him.
All of this stuff ends up being the Mothers responsibility so that the Father is freed up to commune with God. Mothers can then get the down low about what God wants later after the Kids are in bed and have quit shouting. He was probably back taking a nap with the scriptures open.

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fetchface
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Re: New TR question

Post by fetchface » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:36 pm

Emower wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:30 pm
He was probably back taking a nap with the scriptures open.
No way, scripture reading is exciting! It would never put anyone to sleep! :lol:
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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2bizE
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Re: New TR question

Post by 2bizE » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:51 pm

fetchface wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:04 am
2bizE wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:45 am
How about the new question on keeping the Sabbath Day holy at home and at church. What does that mean to keep it holy at church?
Would ordering a pizza to be delivered to the EQ meeting on Sunday afternoon and watching the football game on your phone be considered not keeping it holy at church?
I think what they are doing is very subtle here. They are trying to imply that keeping the sabbath holy means making your home life on Sunday like church all day.
I believe you. I thought Christianity was trying to move away from the law of Moses??
~2bizE

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fetchface
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Re: New TR question

Post by fetchface » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:13 pm

2bizE wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:51 pm
I believe you. I thought Christianity was trying to move away from the law of Moses??
You kiddin'? We're talking about a God who sent an angel to threaten to kill Joseph Smith if he didn't marry dozens of women. The Mormon God is the Old Testament Jehovah, not the nice guy Jesus.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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blazerb
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Re: New TR question

Post by blazerb » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:15 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 pm
The changes are pretty small, but for the most part are all about adding control...

#5 Old: Do you live the law of chastity?

#5 New: The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41). Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior? Do you obey the law of chastity?

So that adds thought police to your actual actions... awesome.

#7 Old: Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

#7 New: Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

This is probably a good change for those in mixed faith marriages so that you don't have to talk about family members that found out the church is a fraud...but not that much different really.

#8 Old: Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

#8 New: Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

That's to make sure that you're not taking advantage of 2 hour church and thinking you can do something that isn't for the church because we can't have that.

#11 Old: Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

#11 New: Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?

This is likely for those who think that iced coffee is OK since it is OK under the word of wisdom... or those evil 'cino drinks.

#13 Old: If you have previously received your temple endowment: 1) Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? 2) Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

#13 New: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?

They're not giving up that kind of control and obedience anytime soon. :x :evil: :twisted:

Anyone who expected they'd relax on the WoW was kidding themselves... this is pretty much the same thing except they've tweaked a few words and added a few extra elements of control. YEA FOR MODERN DAY REVELATION, Y'ALL!
I thought about this. What if we take seriously the rumors about changes in the WoW and garment use? What if those rumors were trial balloons from some GA's to see what the chatter would be? If I believe that, I could see how the new questions are not about maintaining control but really about relaxing some of the standards without actually stating out loud that they are changing. The most obvious possible change that signals a relaxing of standards is #13. Losing the words "night and day" could very well signal a day in the future when garment use becomes less constant with GA approval. All of my examples are in the long game, rather than quick changes.

Regarding the WoW, the new words "understand and obey" could mean that in the future the church will publish a magazine article encouraging less meat consumption and more vegetables. The "understand" part could give the church the leeway to gradually lose restrictions on beer, even. In that light, the recent magazine articles don't represent an iron clad standard. They are intended to reassure older members that the new wording isn't going to change things quickly. I might even argue that the leaders are preparing a less rigid interpretation of the law of chastity. I think some are embarrassed by the masturbation issue. I mean, they have to be, don't they? If it becomes more about striving for moral cleanliness, it allows people to feel much less guilty about behavior that has previously been condemned from the pulpit.

If any of this has any validity, I don't think we would see evidence for a long time, 10 years or so. However, we have heard that the church is working on changing the narrative of its history. The plan there is supposedly also 10 years or so. I acknowledge that we are already seeing changes in the narrative. There is no apparent change in the interpretation of certain gospel standards. However, I would argue that it is easier to change history than commandments. Just maybe the leaders see that the rigid interpretations that served the church in the past are going to be rejected by the kids coming up and are setting up things to loosen up. It's a long shot, I know.

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