Waiting for the new testimonies to show up on Fast Sundays proclaiming, "I believe the Corporation is true".
Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
-- Moksha
- mufflerman
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:17 am
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Let's not forget that the church does not use local labor to build these as well, they use their own Utah based contractors. I have a relative who travels on these projects. So spending big money on a temple keeps that big money with the the 'right' people. Just the left hand feeding the right hand.Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:25 pmThis is very telling.Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:41 am The full article is on archive.org.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190429193 ... es-support
Not wealthy enough to dig wells but wealthy enough to build temples which require attendees to pay 10% of their meager income to a corporation that's sitting on more than $100 billion....Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.
“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added...
Elder Andersen also shared with Vice President Mohadi news that the Church planned to begin construction of the Harare Temple in late 2019, an edifice that will bring special blessings to the people of Zimbabwe.
I wonder what Jesus would do?
Does anyone know if the church provided any help on getting clean water for Zimbabwe? "We share what we have" suggests that they could have solved the entire problem with the snap of their finders. I would feel better if I could learn that they raised one (finger, that is).
ETA: I can find plenty of references online to the church doing missionary outreach in Zimbabwe but nothing about helping with their water concerns. I also found claims on the church's philanthropies site that they are providing clean water to poor countries all over the world. Interestingly, Zimbabwe is not one of those countries:
https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/human ... ean-water
Also, when you click on the More Information link you see that this is really a website for soliciting funds. All this link does is explain why you can't give to a specific cause, but only contribute to the Humanitarian Fund in general...
https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/human ... -charities
...the same fund that the tithing slip now includes in money that belongs to the church to do with as they damn well please.
No doubt much good is done with (some of) the money from this fund. I have known people who have gone on wheelchair distributing missions, but I don't believe they are using donations from the church, it is money that the church is soliciting apart from all of the wealth they have accumulated and, of course, all of the labor is donated. A big part of those missions seems to be finding donors to fund the projects with their own charitable giving. And good for them. The leadership could learn something about giving from their members.
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
You may have seen this funny joke posted on Reddit:Newme wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:33 pmHow weird to know what each other’s underwear looks like. Where else could you take a chapel full of people and they all have the same underwear? We all look goofy and know we all do... or did - for those of us who ditched them. This cult is funny when it isn’t heart-breaking.
“4 LDS TBMs and 1 exmormon walk into a Victoria Secret.
The 4 TBM's say "We all should buy matching underwear".
The Ex Mormon says "You already have matching underwear".
Laughter all the way around
True story, happened in Las Vegas last weekend”.
~2bizE
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Preliminary research shows the upside of investing in the Zimbabwe stock market.Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:55 pm Perhaps they did help build water infrastructure in Zimbabwe. Not the church side of the house but the investment side aka EPA?
What if Andersen was meeting with the country leaders to work an investment deal under the guise of religion?
Promising investment loads, resources, etc in return for gain and profit?
Removing the Andersen quote doesn’t make any sense other than to hide the bad optics unless they were trying to hide a quite promising investment.
We can’t see the church making donations but anyway to see what types of investments were made in an emerging market like Zimbabwe?
What are they hiding by removing the quote?
You don’t get to $100B by sitting on the sidelines or opening swigg, fizz, or other soda shops! Insurance companies and malls are just as bad investments!The Zimbabwe Industrial Index increased 282 Points or 58.67% since the beginning of 2019, according to trading on a contract for difference (CFD) that tracks this benchmark index from Zimbabwe. Historically, the Zimbabwe Stock Market reached an all time high of 823.75 in November of 2019.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
why do they need that large of a Nest Egg?
Who knows? I know I'm trying to build my Nest Egg as large as possible. Admittedly, mine is missing 2 or 3 zeros in comparison.
It's frustrating - and what can be done about it? Not much, at least not quickly.
ExMo/Nom/Disaffected/Distant/JackMo/etc word will continue to grow. It's been 20 years +/- that the Post TBM mindset has taken hold and we've only put a small dent in the TSCC. They still grow each year.
There will not be a single linchpin to devastate the church. It is not a house of cards. But slow and methodical erosion will continue. I think the corporation knows this intrinsically. Not because they actually fear former TBM's but because everything needs maintenance.
Who knows? I know I'm trying to build my Nest Egg as large as possible. Admittedly, mine is missing 2 or 3 zeros in comparison.
It's frustrating - and what can be done about it? Not much, at least not quickly.
ExMo/Nom/Disaffected/Distant/JackMo/etc word will continue to grow. It's been 20 years +/- that the Post TBM mindset has taken hold and we've only put a small dent in the TSCC. They still grow each year.
There will not be a single linchpin to devastate the church. It is not a house of cards. But slow and methodical erosion will continue. I think the corporation knows this intrinsically. Not because they actually fear former TBM's but because everything needs maintenance.
- Spicy McHaggis
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:14 pm
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Chuck the Furch!
A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm Chuck the Furch!
A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Just fuming.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
New strategy:w2mz wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pmSame here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm Chuck the Furch!
A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Just fuming.
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!
This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
- Just This Guy
- Posts: 1541
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
- Location: Almost Heaven
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
It does really make you wonder if there will be a noticeable change in tithing revenue. While TBM's may not want to admit it, the temptation to go easy on tithing is a lot easier to give into now. Basically everyone now knows that the line about the church needing the money is false.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
They will probably start emphasizing more that the purpose of tithing is for the blessings it brings you. It's not about money at all, you know, it's about obedience and the joy of sacrifice.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
I used to imagine the good my donations were doing... why did I not notice the numbers before?
Church averages $40 million/year humanitarian donations... has around 16 million members so... 40/16= $2.50 per person per year?
Am I crunching numbers correctly? I donated thousands each year, and only $2.50 was donated to the needy?
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Like.Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pmNew strategy:w2mz wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pmSame here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm Chuck the Furch!
A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Just fuming.
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!
This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!
Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!
Still really bothered by this.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth
- FiveFingerMnemonic
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- Contact:
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
https://archive.org/stream/conferencere ... 7/mode/2upw2mz wrote:Like.
Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!
Still really bothered by this.
Page 7
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Thank you FFM!FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:34 amhttps://archive.org/stream/conferencere ... 7/mode/2upw2mz wrote:Like.
Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!
Still really bothered by this.
Page 7
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Kicker in bold.“... we expect to see the day when we will not need to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God.”
Anticipated DW response: “How can we not pay, we need the blessings.”
Church wins every time.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
Try and "experiment:" Document all of the "blessings" that you are receiving by paying cult dues. Stop paying cult dues for 6 months or a year, and then see which of those "blessings" go away.w2mz wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:01 amKicker in bold.“... we expect to see the day when we will not need to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God.”
Anticipated DW response: “How can we not pay, we need the blessings.”
Church wins every time.
(Yeah, I know... It more than likely won't work. One can dream, no?)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
There's an excellent interview with that author of the Letter to an IRS Director on Infants on thrones.
The church could cover its costs and still bank $1-2billion/year even without tithing.
He quotes an Ensign Peak employee speculating that the reason for sitting on that mountain of money is to bolster the testimonies of the Q15, as evidence of God's approval.
The church could cover its costs and still bank $1-2billion/year even without tithing.
He quotes an Ensign Peak employee speculating that the reason for sitting on that mountain of money is to bolster the testimonies of the Q15, as evidence of God's approval.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
- FiveFingerMnemonic
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- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:50 pm
- Contact:
Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint
There was a good interview on radio west about this topic today. Doug Fabrizio interviewed a tax law professor who essentially said this is somewhat unprecedented in law and the worst case for the church is Ensign Peak Advisors loses their tax exempt status. Church itself wouldn't.