Passive aggressive Mormon Women

[Mormorrisey]

I don't have Facebook, so I have to rely on Sister M's page to give me the latest Church social media ramblings. (I don't have Facebook because I'd be flaming this nonsense all day long, and who's got time for that?) In any event, I've seen a number of passive aggressive posts about the Million Women's March, from a quote from Margaret Nadauld about how we need more women who are kind, not coarse....blah, blah, blah. The worst is something I just saw, from that horrible Mormon Women Stand blog. Now, I'm posting the link because I'm too annoyed and lazy to summarize it, and I surely would support anyone NOT clicking the link to give this a greater audience than it deserves, but here it is:

http://www.mormonwomenstand.com/i-march ... ekend-too/

What I simply cannot understand, and to her credit, Sister M is mystified by it too, is the passive aggressive/self-righteous nature of these posts. It's catty and simply unnecessary, and it cuts the legs out of people who simply believe different things than you do, so why be a classless jerk? The other thing I'm mystified about, and this is something that clearly Sister M doesn't share, is how mormon women are SO complicit in their own exploitation/second-class citizen status. They just can't see that the religion they belong to will continue to put them under the leadership of men until they go down into their graves - well, unless they are apostates like me and then one is free to reject/ignore what the "priesthood" says. Not only are these sisters content with this situation, they CELEBRATE that fact. It's beyond me.

[HighMaintenance]

I've seen very derogatory responses to the women's march from all different kinds of women. I don't get it. Just because they don't believe they've ever been discriminated against, they just somehow can't believe another woman has been. Mind boggling.

[Enough]

It is beyond me, too. The only explanation I can come up with is this: If I (a Mormon Woman or Man) don't recognize or acknowledge the misogyny, I don't have to feel bad about being treated poorly/treating others poorly. ???

[Red Ryder]

It's really easy to understand when you know the standards Mormon women compare themselves to.

Mormon standards: Of course I am better than anyone else! I'm living the gospel!

Worldly standards: Of course we're better than everyone else! We're living the gospel!

See the difference?

[trophywife26.2]

This one is more fun to read http://zelphontheshelf.com/mormon-woman ... ial-media/

[trophywife26.2]

The thing I don't understand is how so many LDS people appear to be so black and white with a zero tolerance policy on abortion (at least that's how it looks on social media right now) when the church is fairly progressive for a church that's usually so conservative. I don't like the part about needing permission from your church leader, for various reasons, but take that part out and they almost sound like they are ready to high five Kate Kelly at Planned Parenthood Rally. Almost.

https://www.lds.org/topics/abortion?lang=eng

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

ETA: Not to get on the abortion tangent again. I know I locked that thread. It's just that all the LDS women I know who are damning the march seem to think the only reason for the march was for "the right to kill their children." As someone who actually marched, no that's not what the march was all about, but LDS women keep telling me what I think and the motives for my own behavior. Time to unplug for a while maybe.

[FreeFallin]

I've been rather triggered by a lot of things showing up on facebook. A TBM I'm close to posted:

I keep seeing people post on how they are terrified, or scared? Well.. what are you scared of exactly? War? Because that's happening. School shootings? Because that's happening. Pipeline? That's been happening. Terrorism? Definitely alive and well. Going broke due to health insurance? Mmm yes. Corruption throughout the system? Already there. Police officers being murdered? Yep, that's happening. Bullying? Check. Loss of jobs? We've got that on lock. Being discriminated against for your religion, political views, sexual orientation, race? That's been going on. Rape, murder, violence, riots.. all going on and has been.
So tell me, what are you scared of that is not already happening basically everywhere? This isn't a Trump problem, this is a people problem. We all need to re-evaluate "our" own selves..
Maybe America is a little too scared and a little too easily offended.
Quit being scared, crying around, offended by everything.. step up and do "our" part as an American, no, as a human being. Treat others with respect, help and encourage one another, raise your kids right, be a contributing member of society. Make sure "our" hands are clean, that's "our" job. Burning the American flag...while carrying another nations flag...I ask you where is your loyalty? How about you do your job to make it a better place.
But right now, all I see is hate. It's disturbing, and the ones with the most hate are being exactly what they claim to be against.

I tried to comment and start a dialog under her post, but she basically responded with defensiveness.

This post seems to acknowledge some issues, but immediately invalidates the concerns. Then it goes on to talk about how, "we (obviously meaning "you") just need to bla bla bla bla." I have attempted to write out a thoughtful response, I've mulled it over and over in my head, and then it finally dawned on me: This is abusive behavior -- THIS IS HOW THE CHURCH TREATS ITS MEMBERS!!!! It invalidates any concerns they may have and then it tells them, "it's your fault! Do better! Be better! Your hands are NOT clean!"

It doesn't really make me feel much better, but I think that so many of the responses coming from LDS people are a reflection of the relationship they have with the church. Sigh.

[MoPag]

This one is more fun to read http://zelphontheshelf.com/mormon-woman ... ial-media/

OMG! This is the best!! I hate that Naudald quote with a fiery passion. I loved see it worked into this piece of awesomeness.

[Not Buying It]

The hostile reaction by many LDS women to the marches is in part inspired by a strong anti-abortion feeling among members, but also by a natural defensive reaction to belonging to a Church that oppresses women in ways they have no rational explanation to justify. They strike out because they sense on some level that they can't justify the status of women in the Church through any logic known to humankind, and it makes them defensive. It is the exact same reaction we saw by these kinds of women to Ordain Women, for the same reasons.

[moksha]

Mormon women are well tuned-in to the old Ella Fitzgerald song Someone to Watch Over Me.

I'm a little lamb who's lost in the wood
I know I could, always be good
To one who'll preside over me.

Once they have found their priesthood holder who will redeem them with his male priesthood antenna, all they need to do is follow his lead and know the thinking has been done. They have the Mommyhood and who could ask for anything more?

[StarbucksMom]

I don't have Facebook, so I have to rely on Sister M's page to give me the latest Church social media ramblings. (I don't have Facebook because I'd be flaming this nonsense all day long, and who's got time for that?) In any event, I've seen a number of passive aggressive posts about the Million Women's March, from a quote from Margaret Nadauld about how we need more women who are kind, not coarse....blah, blah, blah. The worst is something I just saw, from that horrible Mormon Women Stand blog. Now, I'm posting the link because I'm too annoyed and lazy to summarize it, and I surely would support anyone NOT clicking the link to give this a greater audience than it deserves, but here it is:

http://www.mormonwomenstand.com/i-march ... ekend-too/

She forgot the part where she MARCHED with the Zoramites and stuck a Rameumtom statue up her ass.

[Red Ryder]

She forgot the part where she MARCHED with the Zoramites and stuck a Rameumtom statue up her ass.

Ha ha ha! That's hilarious!

[document]

I get it.

Any opposing viewpoint is seen as an affront to Mormonism.

In the LDS view, women are meek and mild. They are the quiet spiritual backbone of the church. Behind every great LDS leader is a hard working, uncomplaining, spiritual giant who can maintain a household, raise children, and support the husband as demanding callings pull him away from the family. Every position of leadership in the church held by women is overseen and requires approval by a male above her. Every home should be blessed with priesthood leadership, and the man presides over the home. The woman looks to him for direction.

Article of Faith # 12 says, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

Mormon people are to be subject to the president and obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. Let's not pretend that this article of faith in LDS culture is not doubled-down upon and interpreted as unquestioning loyalty when there is a Republican in leadership. I lived as an LDS person through the presidency of George W. Bush, the man was practically worshipped in the Mormon culture. It is generally ignored when there is a democrat in office or interpreted to say that opposition in American society is obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

The women's march presented these two opposing viewpoints. Women were not meek and mild, they were not a quiet spiritual backbone: they were loud, proud, standing tall, and questioning the actions of a male leadership. They were also speaking out against a republican president. They were not, in the eyes of the Mormon community, being subject to the king.

This was too much in opposition to Mormon ideals. How offensive this was to Mormons!

[RubinHighlander]

... how mormon women are SO complicit in their own exploitation/second-class citizen status. They just can't see that the religion they belong to will continue to put them under the leadership of men until they go down into their graves...

Ding, Ding, Ding! Yup, this! ^

Big item on our shelf for both DW and I. Not only 2nd class citizens, but as a melded family and DW being a working mom, 3rd class.

Mormon women calling out activists, like those that gave them the right to vote in this country...
It's almost as bad as Mormon women dissing on Muslim women for wearing burkas. "Well at least we only have to veil our faces in the temple."

[alas]

The thing I don't understand is how so many LDS people appear to be so black and white with a zero tolerance policy on abortion (at least that's how it looks on social media right now) when the church is fairly progressive for a church that's usually so conservative. I don't like the part about needing permission from your church leader, for various reasons, but take that part out and they almost sound like they are ready to high five Kate Kelly at Planned Parenthood Rally. Almost.

https://www.lds.org/topics/abortion?lang=eng

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

ETA: Not to get on the abortion tangent again. I know I locked that thread. It's just that all the LDS women I know who are damning the march seem to think the only reason for the march was for "the right to kill their children." As someone who actually marched, no that's not what the march was all about, but LDS women keep telling me what I think and the motives for my own behavior. Time to unplug for a while maybe.

Oh, oh, oh, I just have to comment on this one now that you brought up abortion and Mormon women stand in the same sentence. Let's just call the person a friend of mine commented using that exact quote from the handbook on a Mormon Wommen Stand thread ranting about the women's March and how horrid people who favor abortion are. Give you three hundred guesses what comment they censored. Yup, the one that quoted the handbook put out by the church with official church policy. Actual church teachings are WAY too liberal for Mormon Women Stand. They want to become right wing Christian Evangelicals. So, they censor the Mormon church handbook. The post my friend made was very polite and very against "abortion on demand," or "elective abortion" just in favor of the woman being given a choice of abortion or birth when the woman has been raped or her life is in jeopardy, and she made it clear that the quote was from the handbook. My friend was shocked and angry that Mormon Women Stand (for Evangical teachings) would try to twist Mormon doctrine to their own political agenda.

[MoPag]

The other thing I'm mystified about, and this is something that clearly Sister M doesn't share, is how mormon women are SO complicit in their own exploitation/second-class citizen status. They just can't see that the religion they belong to will continue to put them under the leadership of men until they go down into their graves - well, unless they are apostates like me and then one is free to reject/ignore what the "priesthood" says. Not only are these sisters content with this situation, they CELEBRATE that fact. It's beyond me.

They can't see because the church they love so much has worn them down to the point that that they believe they deserve it. That is how abusers work. It always starts small. When you are a little girl in primary you start to notice things. None of the scripture stories are about girls. It's all boys all the time. You see that only boys pass the sacrament. Only boys get to do fun scout stuff. Your mom can't give you a blessing or baptize you and when you say she should be able to people freak out.
Then in young womens you are constantly compared to various food items and threatened and shamed about becoming yucky food (morally impure) Also you are taught that your body gives the holy priesthood holders bad thoughts and you need to cover it. Then you are taught that they only way you will ever be happy in this life and be with your family in the next life, is if you marry in the temple. You can't imagine what you want to be when you grow up like your non Mormon friends. That is what women of the world do. That is not what Heavenly Father wants for you.
Then Relief Society age women usually fall into two categories:
Category 1 didn't meet the goals of temple marriage and fertile stay at home motherhood. They will spend the reset of their lives feeling less than and guilty for having not met the ideal. They will probably never understand or realize that reaching the ideal wasn't ever completely in their control in the first place, but they will feel like it was and like they just weren't good enough.
Category 2 met the ideal of marrying a righteous priesthood holder in the temple, and staying home and having babies. But they can't figure out why they still feel so hollow inside. They never admit it to themselves. They did everything God's prophet command them to do, but still deep down, in a place they won't admit even exists, they are miserable. And it doesn't make sense to them because they were told this was the only path to true happiness. So they blame themselves. And some people, like our sisters at MWS, lash out at others.

They are complicit in their own exploitation because after a life time of spiritual abuse they are dehumanized and twisted to the point that they can't see or process how the church uses and abuses them.


Wow, I'm like super depressed now.

[Jinx]

MoPag, thanks for that summary, depressing though it was. I'm still trying to forgive myself for being so complicit in my own degradation for so many years. Your explanation made me feel better.

[nibbler]

I saw several posts from orthodox Mormon women that didn't support the women's march. The top three reasons that were mentioned for being against the march (or more pointedly against the women participating in the march) were:

1) They were marching to protest election results. Not the man Trump himself, they were just upset that Hillary lost.
2) They were marching in support of abortions.
3) They were marching because they support pornography and want to dress immodestly in public. Yes, I saw this multiple times.

I don't think the people making those comments took the time to understand the movement. The women's march was just another "them" group in their eyes where preconceived notions about liberals came to the forefront.

In one breath they decry the #NotMyPresident crowd, in the same breath they say #NotMyMarch, and in the next breath they lament all the divisiveness they see in others but rarely, if ever, in self.

And now I'm doing it with all the references to "they."

I may be misunderstanding the 'passive aggressive Mormon woman' but from their communications it seems like they have the attitude that it's not okay for people to hold an opinion that's contrary to their own.

...The other thing I'm mystified about, and this is something that clearly Sister M doesn't share, is how mormon women are SO complicit in their own exploitation/second-class citizen status. They just can't see that the religion they belong to will continue to put them under the leadership of men until they go down into their graves - well, unless they are apostates like me and then one is free to reject/ignore what the "priesthood" says. Not only are these sisters content with this situation, they CELEBRATE that fact. It's beyond me.

I'd take it one step further, they fight to remain in that position. Believing that god has defined gender roles probably factors into the equation. There's the godly woman, the one that the brethren define; then there's the worldly woman, anything else.

[Korihor]

All this Mormon women against marching nonsense has only further infuriated Mrs Kori.

I for one, fully support these mormon women to complain again other women complaining.

[20/20hind]

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... arch_posts



Pretty good observation