Supporting our own

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Cnsl1
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by Cnsl1 » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:01 am

Jfro18 you've done an amazing job with this and it's enjoyable to watch/ listen. I've learned a thing or two, and I thought I knew just about everything about this stuff. Thank you.

You talk rather fast. That's ok.. not a condemnation or suggestion to slow down, just an observation. You obviously process information very quickly, or at least this information.

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jfro18
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:51 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:01 am
You talk rather fast. That's ok.. not a condemnation or suggestion to slow down, just an observation. You obviously process information very quickly, or at least this information.
Yeah I definitely need to work on that. :)

A big part of the reason is that we did a lot of episodes in a short time so we would do 2 or 3 in a day and I was always watching the clock to make sure we could get them done, so I think that I was going faster to make sure we covered everything. And then depending on how much we got off track in the episodes I was trying to play 'catch up' to make sure we could get it all in.

Once we get recording again I am going to try to be a bit slower - you're definitely not the first to say it and I know I was doing it... I have no idea how fast I'd go if I wasn't worried about time, but I think once we start again it should be a more casual pace.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:47 pm

I'm just about to listen to the last one posted on Spotify, I think it's about the KJV and the BOM? In any event, this is some great stuff, I'm really enjoying the focused timeline of these presentations, from the treasure digging to the BOM and just moving from the 1820s and 30s onward. Very entertaining!

On thing I have noticed that I appreciate very much, is how you temper the expectations of the material you are highlighting. For example, you keep talking about how Joseph didn't "plagiarize" from the Late War and View of the Hebrews, but it was in the same worldview and milieu he was working in. I think this is very important - they are not "smoking guns," but they are evidence of a particular worldview he was borrowing from, which in turn makes the BOM a 19th century work, not an ancient work. And the fact you keep hammering away at this is far more effective, in my view, than constantly talking about the BOM being plagiarized from other books.

I always think about this in turns of E.T. and that really crappy knock off, Mac and Me. Mac and Me is not plagiarism per se, but man, everybody can see what it was trying to do, and how it was ripping off ideas to ride E.T's financial coattails. Same with the BOM and the environment surrounding Joseph Smith. I think these have been great, and can't wait to hear more!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:48 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:47 pm
I'm just about to listen to the last one posted on Spotify, I think it's about the KJV and the BOM? In any event, this is some great stuff, I'm really enjoying the focused timeline of these presentations, from the treasure digging to the BOM and just moving from the 1820s and 30s onward. Very entertaining!

On thing I have noticed that I appreciate very much, is how you temper the expectations of the material you are highlighting. For example, you keep talking about how Joseph didn't "plagiarize" from the Late War and View of the Hebrews, but it was in the same worldview and milieu he was working in. I think this is very important - they are not "smoking guns," but they are evidence of a particular worldview he was borrowing from, which in turn makes the BOM a 19th century work, not an ancient work. And the fact you keep hammering away at this is far more effective, in my view, than constantly talking about the BOM being plagiarized from other books.

I always think about this in terms of E.T. and that really crappy knock off, Mac and Me. Mac and Me is not plagiarism per se, but man, everybody can see what it was trying to do, and how it was ripping off ideas to ride E.T's financial coattails. Same with the BOM and the environment surrounding Joseph Smith. I think these have been great, and can't wait to hear more!
Should I go for three? Sometimes technology befuddles me.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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græy
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by græy » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:44 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:01 am
Jfro18 you've done an amazing job with this and it's enjoyable to watch/ listen. I've learned a thing or two, and I thought I knew just about everything about this stuff. Thank you.
Ditto. Great job! Looking forward to the rest of the series.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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moksha
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by moksha » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:48 pm

Here is #10 in this Mormon Stories Podcast series. It is entitled, How the Book of Mormon Was Composed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L-68kZfubU
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Just This Guy
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by Just This Guy » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:26 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:48 pm
Here is #10 in this Mormon Stories Podcast series. It is entitled, How the Book of Mormon Was Composed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L-68kZfubU
I started that one on my drive into work this morning.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Hagoth
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:44 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:51 am
Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:01 am
You talk rather fast. That's ok.. not a condemnation or suggestion to slow down, just an observation. You obviously process information very quickly, or at least this information.
Yeah I definitely need to work on that. :)
Funny, I listen on 1.5x speed and I hadn't noticed. Probably because I spend a lot of time talking about religion and philosophy with my son and he normally talks at 2.0x speed
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Angel
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by Angel » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:53 am

Late to the ball-game.

Listening to this "It testifies of Jesus!"

There is a mulch company near us, "Jesus' dirt". Down here in South, quite a few companies "Jesus cleaning company" or "Jesus' car repair", it's a sales tactic - slap the name Jesus on it to sell to Christian club.

Funny thing, his name wasn't even Jesus, JW's have it closer - Roman's re-named him to a more masculine sounding name. They didn't get the name right.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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jfro18
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Re: Supporting our own

Post by jfro18 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:23 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:47 pm
On thing I have noticed that I appreciate very much, is how you temper the expectations of the material you are highlighting. For example, you keep talking about how Joseph didn't "plagiarize" from the Late War and View of the Hebrews, but it was in the same worldview and milieu he was working in. I think this is very important - they are not "smoking guns," but they are evidence of a particular worldview he was borrowing from, which in turn makes the BOM a 19th century work, not an ancient work. And the fact you keep hammering away at this is far more effective, in my view, than constantly talking about the BOM being plagiarized from other books.
Thank you! For me this was one of the things I told John early on was that if I was going to do Mormon Stories episodes on this 'project' that I would be clear in some areas that even though a lot of people have beliefs that it happened (plagiarism is a big one esp since it's the start of the CES Letter) that I would go out of my way to try and explain why I don't think it's a good argument.

I know that most believers will not appreciate that I am trying to stick to the most solid evidence I can, but I would have no issue defending anything I say to a family member or church leader if I was ever approached about it.

We'll see if these have any real impact in helping people who are trying to figure this out, but I've gotten a lot of nice emails and messages including a few from believers who liked that I've been willing to push back on some of these things a bit.

I believe we recorded four more after yesterday's and then we'll pick back up in August. It's been nice to have a break from them as I got burned out and had a really sudden death in the family, but hopefully once we pick back up I can take all of the comments and make the future episodes better. :)

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