She seems close to the end sometimes

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Conman52
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:32 pm
Location: West michigan

She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by Conman52 » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:16 pm

Hi gang : Been sometime since I have visited and posted my own thread. I have missed you guys. Recently when all the financial dealings of ensign peak came out in the news I kept dropping hints and at one point came out and asked my TBM wife if she would want to belong to a dishonest organization?? She said no and we had a couple of other discussions about it and I was thinking her shelf was crashing then the next day she wouldn't even talk about it and doubled down. She was almost there !!!! What happens to those that almost turn the corner ?? I just don't get it !! What do you Nomies say ??
By their fruits ye shall know them

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alas
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Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by alas » Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:27 pm

Sometimes those who almost turn the corner retrench. They fortify the “shelf” because they feel like it is under attack. This is why we NOMmies advise taking it slow yourself and allowing your spouse to find their own way out or to stay TBM and stay in. You just can’t lead them out until they decide on their own that is the direction they want to go.

So, yes, keep talking about your journey out, unless your spouse say it feels uncomfortable or refuses to talk about it. Then back off and reassure them that you love them just the way they are and don’t try to change them. Trying to change your spouse just makes them feel unloved. I mean, you know how you would feel if spouse pressured you to stay in or lectured you about the evils of leaving. So, golden rule, if you wouldn’t like spouse to try to change you, don’t try to change them.

So, it is a fine line between sharing your own spiritual journey, and expecting your spouse to join you in your journey. So, pay close attention to if you push too hard to try to get her to leave. And refusing to talk about it is a pretty good sign you gave her too much to think about and she didn’t like it. In other words, you pushed too much to get her to leave the church.

People just have to change their own minds sometimes and any attempt to get them to change back fires on you.

Wonderment
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Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by Wonderment » Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:51 pm

Conman52 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:16 pm
Hi gang : Been sometime since I have visited and posted my own thread. I have missed you guys. Recently when all the financial dealings of ensign peak came out in the news I kept dropping hints and at one point came out and asked my TBM wife if she would want to belong to a dishonest organization?? She said no and we had a couple of other discussions about it and I was thinking her shelf was crashing then the next day she wouldn't even talk about it and doubled down. She was almost there !!!! What happens to those that almost turn the corner ?? I just don't get it !! What do you Nomies say ??
This is what happens psychologically: sometimes when TBM's have too many items "on their shelf", they tend to be emotionally overwhelmed and cannot process all the issues. TBM's believe that God and the church are inseparable. God and the church are one and the same, because the church does the Lord's work on earth. So to doubt the church is to doubt the works of God and to doubt the first commandment to love the Lord thy God.

Right now, your spouse started to turn the corner, then felt that she was turning away from God because she doubted the church. Eventually, as one proceeds through these faith disucssions, one starts to see the church organization as being separate from God and subject to human foibles and human dishonesty. That is disconcerting to them. They feel that they are on shaky ground, so they want to go back to their familiar, comfortable beliefs. It's kind of a two steps forward, one step back kind of a thing. It seems to happen in most religious cults where the leaders are seen as prophets receiving direct revelation from heavenly father.
Thank you for bringing up this important and relevant topic. -- Wndr.

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Angel
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Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by Angel » Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:34 am

Conman52 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:16 pm
Hi gang : Been sometime since I have visited and posted my own thread. I have missed you guys. Recently when all the financial dealings of ensign peak came out in the news I kept dropping hints and at one point came out and asked my TBM wife if she would want to belong to a dishonest organization?? She said no and we had a couple of other discussions about it and I was thinking her shelf was crashing then the next day she wouldn't even talk about it and doubled down. She was almost there !!!! What happens to those that almost turn the corner ?? I just don't get it !! What do you Nomies say ??
Let's say you are leaving a job, or perhaps graduating from school, going through some transition. A gradual disentanglement from the situation is often best, with time to fully process emotions, and perhaps form bridges within new communities. If it is possible to make an exit as smoothly and respectfully as possible, without anger, responsible - planned- no loose ends - thoughtful.

Patience, piece by piece, perhaps provide links to new structures/ new communities, weave in the new colors :)
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Palerider
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by Palerider » Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:39 am

Good responses all.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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moksha
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by moksha » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:57 pm

Conman52 wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:16 pm
What happens to those that almost turn the corner??
Their programming is strong and they are able to emit enough gaslight to reinflate the balloon.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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MoPag
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Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by MoPag » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:32 pm

Angel wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:34 am

Patience, piece by piece, perhaps provide links to new structures/ new communities, weave in the new colors :)
Try to realize that Mormon women have been taught to measure their worth and identity on being married to a worthy, believing priesthood holder. Your faith crisis is her identity crisis.

Like Angel said, bring new things into her life. Nurture a new hobby. Find new friends. Volunteer. Help her find more facets to her identity.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Culper Jr.
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by Culper Jr. » Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:04 pm

MoPag wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:32 pm
Your faith crisis is her identity crisis.
Wow, that hits. So true and I never really thought of it like that.

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Red Ryder
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: She seems close to the end sometimes

Post by Red Ryder » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:06 am

Next time you’re having a conversation about anything bothering her about the church that she specifically brings up, here’s what you do.

Politely recognize and validate her question.

Then confidently tell her to “give yourself permission” to question.

Then drop the mic and allow her to contemplate your three simple words.

“It’s OK, give yourself permission…”

You have to recognize that her shelf probably isn’t even half way fully loaded yet. It’s going to take time. If she gives herself permission, it will begin to crack.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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