This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Bill_Billiams wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:09 am
I watched an evolution among the Mormons I grew up around. When I was a kid they absolutely denied that they were Christians and they asserted that the Book of Mormon was completely true and reliable.
The LDS anger towards Christianity stemmed from the religious officials of the 1893 World’s Parliament of Religions rejecting B.H. Roberts right to speak based on some trifling over a twin relic of barbarism. In response to the pickiness of the Christians, the Brethren cursed them and all they stood for and made the symbol of the cross verboten in the land of Zion Utah. B.H. Roberts embodied the pinnacle of LDS intellectualism and God's delegation endured a harrowing train ride all the way to Chicago, but they were being denied the chance to proclaim the everlasting Gospel to the world because of some prejudice against the Principle, yet so-called "people of color" were given honor on the speaking dais. The Brethren would not be forgiving of this slight.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
BH Roberts was responsible for a number of watershed moments within Mormonism, such as when he wanted to present a report to the Brethren on historical problems within the Church. The Brethren voted to table that report indefinitely by placing their hands on their ears, eyes, and mouths (leading to the saying, "Hear no truth, see no truth, speak no truth").
Shannon Caldwell Montez has reported about the Secret Mormon Meetings of 1922 on multi episodes of Mormon Stories and Gospel Tangents.
Wow, what an interesting and meaningful post. I'm going to give this some serious thought and spend some time researching this topic. BH Roberts has always seemed to be an enigma. Sort of like Eugene England. Exposed enough of Mormonism's warts and dirty parts to make me wonder why they still believed and stayed with the church. But they did stay with it.
Good on ya Moksha.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell
Interesting. I know a few ex-mo's who have found new homes in other Christian denominations and am happy for them - they now get to enjoy better Easter and Christmas services . There are beautiful ideas within Christianity - the biggest of which revolves around the cross. The cross is a powerful symbol of sacrifice. The trinity idea - that it was God who died - God themselves on earth - it makes God into a much better figure. Tempting to find a non-denominational group to meet with as they are more prevalent in my area than Taoist or universalists which is my first choice. Perhaps when I retire and have more free time I'll search out a new religious community. For now, volunteer /work community, family etc. is my tribe.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
My takeaway is Truth matters !! Shannon Caldwell Montez really pulls the curtain back on the bretheren . I hope and pray she will eventually write a book to expose the church even more for what they really are. The Lds church is NOT what it claims to be and the bretheren have known that for at least 150 years. That was always one of my burning questions do the bretheren know the truth or do they just bury their head in the sand ? Now I know they have always known. Thank you Shannon Caldwell Montez and John Dehlin !!
The divide goes pretty far back. Brigham Young differentiated between Mormons and Christians in a way that is hilarious, considering the way the modern church dances around inconvenient science: "“In these respects we differ from the Christian world, for our religion will not clash with or contradict the facts of science in any particular” (Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, pp. 258-259).
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
I wish YouTube had a recording of the early temple film, wherein a (obviously catholic, great and abominable church representative) priest (with a bad perm hairdo) is hired ("I will pay you well") by Satan to preach to Adam and Eve. The early missionary lessons (at least up to the late 80's) also hammered on the Catholics and mainstream Christianity as broken and corrupted pieces of the original church Jesus setup. It's hard to have things both ways, differentiate your cult with weird new ways so people feel special, but also viewed by the world as mainstream.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams
RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:02 am
I wish YouTube had a recording of the early temple film, wherein a (obviously catholic, great and abominable church representative) priest (with a bad perm hairdo) is hired ("I will pay you well") by Satan to preach to Adam and Eve. The early missionary lessons (at least up to the late 80's) also hammered on the Catholics and mainstream Christianity as broken and corrupted pieces of the original church Jesus setup. It's hard to have things both ways, differentiate your cult with weird new ways so people feel special, but also viewed by the world as mainstream.
If you go back a little farther, the temple ceremony included a Protestant hymn. The servant of Lucifer was a Protestant preacher in the original, although that was obscured by the time I went through.
I remember feeling very surprised by the preacher dude the first time I went through the temple, and was happy when he was taken out of subsequent temple videos.
It seemed very clear to me that the preacher represented ALL the other Protestant Christian sects and that Satan was behind it all, and that the goal for the protestant sects was to get gain, and that Satan's goal was to thwart God’s plan. The catholics of course were the most currupt and evil, and was the great and abominable whore of all the earth. I don't remember giving non Christian sects much thought, other than the Jews, who were of course, misguided and awful for killing Jesus, AND there was the idea that was presented (not in the temple, but among maybe some leaders of the church back in my early years) that maybe the reason the Holocaust was allowed to occur was because God was so pissed off with them for killing Jesus. Now, it wouldn't have been presented quite like that, but that was the gist.
I'm embarrassed to have ever considered such twaddle, but like most of you know, we were young and impressionable, and were very sure we were so blessed to have and know the truth.
. There are beautiful ideas within Christianity - the biggest of which revolves around the cross. The cross is a powerful symbol of sacrifice. The trinity idea - that it was God who died - God themselves on earth - it makes God into a much better figure. Tempting to find a non-denominational group to meet with as they are more prevalent in my area than Taoist or universalists which is my first choice. Perhaps when I retire and have more free time I'll search out a new religious community. For now, volunteer /work community, family etc. is my tribe.
