John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

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Hagoth
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John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jun 04, 2024 10:48 am

Here's an interesting article on how John Bunyan, a 17th century author, likely influenced the Book of Mormon. His books, particularly Pilgrim's Progress and Holy War were very popular reading in the Burnedover District.
https://www.academia.edu/3492929/Hidin ... card=title

The main points:
Desolation, Bountiful, and the Celestial Kingdom are all important place names in Pilgrim's Progress.

Abinidi: Bunyan’s martyrdom of a man named Faithful combines elements of the stoning of Stephen and the conversion of Paul, and shares 14 distinctive patterns with the story of Abinidi. In Bunyan’s version, the stoning of Stephen catalyzes the conversion of Paul. Bunyan turns the judgement of Stephen into a courtroom scene, followed by imprisonment, torture, and finally death by scorching at the stake where he declares that his testimony has been sealed with his blood. Abinidi’s story follows Faithful’s in an exact one-to-one series of events.

Lehi: Bunyan’s narrator has a dream about the character Christian wherein he is given a book that describes the impending destruction of his city. He tells his family, who initially mock him, but eventually join him. He leaves the city in search of the Celestial Kingdom. Along the way he has visions that roughly compare to some of the things Lehi reported.

Bunyan’s Holy War describes a war of near annihilation between light and dark skinned people, secret cabals attempting to seize government control, heroic righteous captains, and a visit from Jesus to establish a righteous society.

The environment was raining soup. All Joseph had to do was hold out a bowl.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Ghost
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Ghost » Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:12 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2024 10:48 am
. . . conversion of Paul. Bunyan turns . . .
Now I can't help wondering what the Book of Mormon might be like had it been inspired by the stories of Paul Bunyan. Probably just a few years too late, unfortunately.

stuck
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by stuck » Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:52 am

Wow Hagoth, that's incredible! It's interesting what we keep learning after all this time since I had my faith crisis in 2014.

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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Conman52 » Tue Jun 04, 2024 12:46 pm

Amazing, thanks Hagoth.
By their fruits ye shall know them

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moksha
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:26 pm

Is there a connection between Brigham Young and Babe the blue ox?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Red Ryder
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jun 05, 2024 4:44 pm

moksha wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:26 pm
Is there a connection between Brigham Young and Babe the blue ox?
Initially, they both had blue balls until Brother Brigham adopted the practice of polygamy.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:33 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2024 4:44 pm
moksha wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:26 pm
Is there a connection between Brigham Young and Babe the blue ox?
Initially, they both had blue balls until Brother Brigham adopted the practice of polygamy.
While the nature of Babe's relationship with Paul was never quite clear.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Angel
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Angel » Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:35 pm

Joseph Campbell revealed the pattern. Countless stories follow the hero's journey, also sometimes called the monomyth. A protagonist ventures away from home, faces challenges, transforms, and returns with newfound knowledge or treasure. From ancient myths to modern blockbusters, the hero's journey has been repeated across time and cultures.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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moksha
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by moksha » Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:33 pm

Angel wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:35 pm
Joseph Campbell revealed the pattern. Countless stories follow the hero's journey, also sometimes called the monomyth. A protagonist ventures away from home, faces challenges, transforms, and returns with newfound knowledge or treasure. From ancient myths to modern blockbusters, the hero's journey has been repeated across time and cultures.
Makes you wonder how the Church would have turned out had Joseph behaved piously, without the desire of sexual lust with affairs and polygamy, the desire for money with the bank fraud, and humbly without being the supreme general of the Nauvoo Legion in a true hero's journey.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Angel
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Angel » Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:02 pm

I wonder if a common theme within all those similar narratives end with submission to God -aka- pope/prophet/dictator/king, or submission to a life of group slavery? - follow the leader to death - The theme with all religious/political groups, making heirarchies seem noble, praising suffering, honoring unquestioned obedience... preached by heirarchies, preached by those who embrace group think. Not the journey of a "hero" at all.

Example of a better heroes journey -

The beliefs they grew up with had always been a comforting blanket, but lately, felt suffocating. Doubts, contradictions, lies- like whispers at first, grew into a chorus. They wrestled with the dissonance, clinging to rituals and prayers, but the truth gnawed at them. Finally, with a heavy heart, they stepped outside the confines of their faith, venturing into the uncharted territory of non-belief. The path was lonely at first, the absence of their community a constant ache. But a new understanding emerged, one that celebrated reason and freedom from dogma. Slowly, they began sharing this newfound clarity with loved ones, not preaching but offering a different perspective. To their surprise, many embraced the idea, finding freedom in questioning. Others were unable to escape, but honest conversations at least fostered a deeper understanding and acceptance of other trains of thought. In the end, the shackles of religious belief loosened, replaced by the freedom to forge their own experiments and find their own truths, a testament to the power of reason and the enduring strength of love.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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2bizE
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by 2bizE » Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:20 pm

I’ve often wondered where Joseph Smith Senior got his story about the tree of life from. I’m pretty sure he didn’t have a dream about it. He likely heard a story told like Paul Bunyan and borrowed it from that. I wish my great relatives from the past had not been so gullible about believe Joseph Smith…I wish I hadn’t been as gullible either.
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: John Bunyan inpriation for Book of Mormon?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:22 am

2bizE wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:20 pm
I’ve often wondered where Joseph Smith Senior got his story about the tree of life from. I’m pretty sure he didn’t have a dream about it. He likely heard a story told like Paul Bunyan and borrowed it from that. I wish my great relatives from the past had not been so gullible about believe Joseph Smith…I wish I hadn’t been as gullible either.
Or, he might have actually had a vision of sorts. Many of the medications people were using at the time were made from psychoactive plants that are prohibited today. Joseph Sr.'s father, for instance, was also a "visionary man," who just happened to be treating his rheumatism with Datura, which is a powerful hallucinogenic. My good friend Alex Criddle is digging deep on this topic and has found that a lot of people in Joseph Smith's time and region were using medicines that might have been causing visions and hallucinations as an unexpected side effect that could be easily misinterpreted as coming from a supernatural source.

BTW, Alex is the guest on the latest Mormonish podcast, talking about the possibility of a psychedelic sacrament in the Kirtland temple. Well worth a listen!
https://www.mormonishpodcast.org/episode/psychedelics
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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