NOM

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:26 am

John posed the question, Why does the Church continually support problematic therapists, like Jodi Hildebrandt, Maurice Harker, and Thom Harrison? And then they kick out therapists that actually attempt to follow accepted best practices and scientifically informed approaches and views, such as Natasha Helfer?

John answered the question, It's because the Church's teachings are so out of line with what we understand from science. They can't accept a therapist who will lead people to scientifically accepted beliefs. Instead, they get these people that nominally accept the Church's teachings, but would be censured by any recognized licensing body and have used not only questionable practices but unethical and sometimes illegal ones.

During his comments (paraphrased above, not quoted), John repeated multiple times, "Masturbation is normative". In other words, masturbation is normal and is a normal thing among humans (and various types of animals). The idea that it is wrong is based only upon its sinfulness and is not supported by scientifically-based inquiry.

During his comments (paraphrased above, not quoted), John repeated multiple times, "Masturbation is normative". In other words masturbation is normal and is a normal thing among humans (and various types of animals). The idea that it is wrong is based only upon its sinfulness and is not supported by scientifically-based inquiry.

He didn't address the concept of porn there, but we have to take his informed, expert opinion on masturbation with some degree of credence. He certainly is more informed on the current understanding of the topic than myself, and I expect than anyone else here.

If masturbation is normative then personal sexual stimulation and arousal certainly is. That necessarily shifts the consideration away from whether porn is the mighty problem portrayed in the Mormon Church. (It's not that mighty problem, except when the problem is self-created -- forget the pink elephant.) We should not label porn, per se, including bare shoulders, as good or evil, which is also a very distorted way of looking at things.

Wonderment wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:16 pm

Jeffet wrote:

During his comments (paraphrased above, not quoted), John repeated multiple times, "Masturbation is normative". In other words masturbation is normal and is a normal thing among humans (and various types of animals). The idea that it is wrong is based only upon its sinfulness and is not supported by scientifically-based inquiry.

He didn't address the concept of porn there, but we have to take his informed, expert opinion on masturbation with some degree of credence. He certainly is more informed on the current understanding of the topic than myself, and I expect than anyone else here.

If masturbation is normative then personal sexual stimulation and arousal certainly is. That necessarily shifts the consideration away from whether porn is the mighty problem portrayed in the Mormon Church. (It's not that mighty problem, except when the problem is self-created -- forget the pink elephant.) We should not label porn, per se, including bare shoulders, as good or evil, which is also a very distorted way of looking at things.

I am very sympathetic to the hundreds of thousands of Mormon teenagers that have guilt and shame dumped on them when they confess to masturbation and then are told that they are not worthy to serve a mission, pass the Sacrament, and so forth. The church's obsession with masturbation is so cruel and unnecessary. The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds. Sexuality is only to be used for procreation, and nothing else. Sexuality causes pleasure, along with "spilled seed", and the church cannot accept that. This doctrine is so rigid, cruel, and unyielding, that it makes thousands of people miserable.
I have attended many different Christian churches, and I cannot think of any other one which is as obsessed with masturbation. It's just unfathomable how obsessed they are with it. -- Wndr.

Bonfire wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 7:38 pm

Do you think they do this to harness terror?

Wonderment wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:16 pm

The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:12 am

Wonderment wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:16 pm

The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds.

But somehow remain oblivious the the fact that they are actually creating unnecessary obsessions and compulsions that have real consequences in peoples' lives. Or do they care so much about control that they are willing to accept that marriages will be destroyed, children will commit suicide, people will live in endless anxiety and self-hatred, as long as institutional control wins out?

Just This Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:44 am

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:44 am

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

CaptainSalty wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:28 am

I can confirm Bonfire is not an AI bot.

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:13 am

Just This Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:44 am

Maybe I am missing something or maybe something is getting lost in translation. But these recent posts by Bonfire make no sense to me. They don't even seam like something written by a TBM. It comes across more like AI generated nonsense than a coherent point about anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is coming across as either a bot or a rather lazy trolling attempt.

You're not wrong.

CaptainSalty wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:28 am

I can confirm Bonfire is not an AI bot.

AI Troll?

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:12 am

Wonderment wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:16 pm

The church believes that by controlling their adherents sexuality, then they can control their minds.

But somehow remain oblivious the the fact that they are actually creating unnecessary obsessions and compulsions that have real consequences in peoples' lives. Or do they care so much about control that they are willing to accept that marriages will be destroyed, children will commit suicide, people will live in endless anxiety and self-hatred, as long as institutional control wins out?

Wonderment wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:45 pm

And what is amazing, is that some of the people who commit the worst sexual excesses, are closely associated with churches, i.e., Jimmy Swaggert, or Jim Bakker, or a number of Catholic priests, or Jerry Falwell and wife. Or the prophet Joseph, who appears to have been a man of strong sexual appetites.

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:13 pm

Political blogger JoeMyGod has been keeping a running tally of people in legal trouble for child sexual abuse.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:55 am

One thing that has come up with all the investigation to Tim Ballard is that the people who created the "Fight the New Drug" campaign were big supporters of the "Visions of Glory" book and author. The are documented connections between the founds of FtNG and people Like Tim Ballard, Lori Daybell, Jodi Hilldebrant, and a lot of the really nutty people that are big into that book.

If nothing else, that help explain the obsession with porn and the complete disregard for science and modern psychology in their BS "treatment".