Conference Report and Analysis

[Korihor]

So is it new that they no longer tell opposing voters to go talk to their stake presidents? No vocal acknowledgment of the opposing votes either. They have embraced a policy of completely ignoring them it seems.

Any idea how many dissenters raised a hand?

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

So is it new that they no longer tell opposing voters to go talk to their stake presidents? No vocal acknowledgment of the opposing votes either. They have embraced a policy of completely ignoring them it seems.

Any idea how many dissenters raised a hand?

No idea, they pan away/zoom out from the audience before you can see them. I heard some strong vocal "opposed" voices though.

[LSOF]

I heard the acknowledgement on KSRR.

[Red Ryder]

Uchtdorf sort of ignored the opposers after the second group yelled opposed. Than at the very end he invited them to talk with their stake presidents.

In the priesthood session, Monson spoke first for about 5 minutes. Mainly reading from the teleprompter. He mumbles pretty bad now so they had the captioned words on. He missed quite a few words that were on the caption. He is getting old so that's expected. i just wish they would let him grow old out of the public eye. His message was simple. Be kind.

Bednar talked about Stephen Burnett as a missionary in 1832. He failed to mention that Burnett left the church 6 years later. Burnett became miffed because he learned the 3 witnesses, even Martin Harris, never saw the plates with their physical eyes, but rather their spiritual eyes/vision/hallucinations.

I tuned out after that and thought they would end after one hour. Nope, they dragged it out for 30 more minutes. I plan to watch zero minutes tomorrow.

[GoodBoy]

I did listen long enough to hear the admonishment to pay you tithing even if you can't afford food.

[redjay]

Bednar talked about Stephen Burnett as a missionary in 1832. He failed to mention that Burnett left the church 6 years later. Burnett became miffed because he learned the 3 witnesses, even Martin Harris, never saw the plates with their physical eyes, but rather their spiritual eyes/vision/hallucinations.

For the love of all that is holy, why are they not picking up on the message that people are not stupid, the internet is here and we do not like the faith promoting half-story misrepresentations? This sheet does not fly anymore.

[Anon70]

Bednar talked about Stephen Burnett as a missionary in 1832. He failed to mention that Burnett left the church 6 years later. Burnett became miffed because he learned the 3 witnesses, even Martin Harris, never saw the plates with their physical eyes, but rather their spiritual eyes/vision/hallucinations.

For the love of all that is holy, why are they not picking up on the message that people are not stupid, the internet is here and we do not like the faith promoting half-story misrepresentations? This sheet does not fly anymore.

....do THEY know the whole story? Every time this happens I feel like almost everyone knows more about church history than they do. Did anyone listen to the Trevor / Grow / Clarke recording? I came away thinking that the GAs don't know anything. About anything.

[redjay]

I did listen long enough to hear the admonishment to pay you tithing even if you can't afford food.

And this.

White upper class professional people who can't fathom that actually paying tithing (neglecting any side benefits from learning to budget) makes you poorer. And adds to people's burdens.

People do not leave the church because of history or any other single reason. People leave the church because it is harder to stay than remain, and that is driven by a composite of social, spiritual, temporal, intellectual, familial, institutional (trust-based) and moral concerns. Not all of these will have the same weighting - and certain things will push a person over the edge.

I was speaking to an inactive member a few weeks ago. HIs dad is old and active, his mother passed away. The inactive member recalls being made homeless twice as a kid, even while the tithing was being paid. What wins: the 'truth' as presented on the TV from relatively affluent men from a different continent, OR your own lived experience?

And for anyone who says we don't preach a prosperity gospel - that has not been my experience. I was raised by my mormon parents to pay tithing with the expectation that I would be temporarily blessed, and on my mission I taught investigators that be paying offerings that 'the barrel of cruise would not fail'.

[redjay]

....do THEY know the whole story? Every time this happens I feel like almost everyone knows more about church history than they do. Did anyone listen to the Trevor / Grow / Clarke recording? I came away thinking that the GAs don't know anything. About anything.

Fair comment - correlation or whoever proofreads the talks beforehand should do some fact checking and feedback.

As for what THEY Do know. I suspect most are happy to accept apologist views without critically analysing the facts, as the logic follows that the church is true so everything else is subject and conforms to that principle truth.

We can only guess how many are non-literal believers, or hold nuanced views - the church is still a massive exercise in group think. How ridiculous is it that even from our nearest and dearest we feel constrained and can't openly talk about perceived inconsistencies and alternate explanations to what we are told? We are in an organisation where we teach each other that the only socially acceptable testimony and belief is the expression "I know".

[Anon70]

....do THEY know the whole story? Every time this happens I feel like almost everyone knows more about church history than they do. Did anyone listen to the Trevor / Grow / Clarke recording? I came away thinking that the GAs don't know anything. About anything.

Fair comment - correlation or whoever proofreads the talks beforehand should do some fact checking and feedback.

As for what THEY Do know. I suspect most are happy to accept apologist views without critically analysing the facts, as the logic follows that the church is true so everything else is subject and conforms to that principle truth.

We can only guess how many are non-literal believers, or hold nuanced views - the church is still a massive exercise in group think. How ridiculous is it that even from our nearest and dearest we feel constrained and can't openly talk about perceived inconsistencies and alternate explanations to what we are told? We are in an organisation where we teach each other that the only socially acceptable testimony and belief is the expression "I know".

Yes, excellent points. And "I know" is almost 100% based on "I feel" or "I was taught..."

[Give It Time]

....do THEY know the whole story? Every time this happens I feel like almost everyone knows more about church history than they do. Did anyone listen to the Trevor / Grow / Clarke recording? I came away thinking that the GAs don't know anything. About anything.

Fair comment - correlation or whoever proofreads the talks beforehand should do some fact checking and feedback.

As for what THEY Do know. I suspect most are happy to accept apologist views without critically analysing the facts, as the logic follows that the church is true so everything else is subject and conforms to that principle truth.

We can only guess how many are non-literal believers, or hold nuanced views - the church is still a massive exercise in group think. How ridiculous is it that even from our nearest and dearest we feel constrained and can't openly talk about perceived inconsistencies and alternate explanations to what we are told? We are in an organisation where we teach each other that the only socially acceptable testimony and belief is the expression "I know".

Yes, excellent points. And "I know" is almost 100% based on "I feel" or "I was taught..."

Or "it works for me,".

[Mormorrisey]

I haven't been able to comment too much; I don't want to peck away at the computer whilst the rest of the family is watching intently, it seems rude!

But one thing I was struck by at this conference is the contradictions of big tent mormonism - on the one hand, you have Holland calling for more compassion, and even used the (gasp ) GAY word in conference, but then IN THE SAME TALK, warned people not to be too individualistic. Then Renlund and of course Dieter decrying ladder climbers and those who don't care for the poor, even Monson's two minute talk was about charity, yet still have authoritarian talks from Anderson and some of the seventies, like that one guy who said the brethren speak for Jesus. Who knows what will come next, we haven't heard from Cook or Oaks yet, but it's hard to be cautiously optimistic about the direction of the church when you're just waiting for the hammer to come down. I will remain cautiously cynical, because I know the iron fist is still in that velvet glove. Surely the zipping through of the pretty lame statistics, the fairly vocal opposed votes and all the rest of the conversations in this thread are showing that all is not well in Zion, and maybe some will try the "soft" approach. I'm actually looking forward to see if these messages are repeated today, or the more dictatorial side of the church will be on display. Now that I see conference with a more critical eye, it's quite interesting.

[Red Ryder]

Sounds like you're becoming fluent in understanding the double speak.

In the past, it was multiple talks that were contradicting in order to appease the different member corners in the church.

Now it's the same speaker on one talk!

[Emower]

Had anyone else noticed the trend in the Mormon leaks documents where the authorities advocate for leaders to take a slow approach to discipline and then say "the members may resign their membership?" I have read that in several of the documents. It's almost as if they just hope the problem will go away on its own if they ignore it for long enough.

[MalcolmVillager]

These are not the droids you are looking for.

TBMs buy it hook, line, and sinker!

Don't acknowledge the weakness. Carry on! All is well in Zion. Any defectors have fallen prey to the evil one and only enhance the stay on the boat message. This is the end of times and persecutions will continue to rage, mobs again are rising, armies of Satan will assemble.

Calaumny (the interwebs) is defaming but the "truth" (trademark) will go forth. All we await now is the work to be deemed done. Then we can drink the kool-aid and hasten the end!

[MoPag]

But one thing I was struck by at this conference is the contradictions of big tent mormonism - on the one hand, you have Holland calling for more compassion, and even used the (gasp ) GAY word in conference, but then IN THE SAME TALK, warned people not to be too individualistic. Then Renlund and of course Dieter decrying ladder climbers and those who don't care for the poor, even Monson's two minute talk was about charity, yet still have authoritarian talks from Anderson and some of the seventies, like that one guy who said the brethren speak for Jesus.

^ Yes! Even amongst the messages from the Q15 too. Nelson says we should NOT use phrases like "enabling power of the atonement" and that has always kind of been Bednar's thing. It's like a common catch phrase in a lot of his talks. Then Nelson kept talking about how awesome he is for reading all about Christ this year and challenging others to do the same. Then Hales says reading about Christ isn't enough. Interesting stuff. Maybe they are at odds with each other behind closed doors and this is the spill over.

Now that I see conference with a more critical eye, it's quite interesting.

Totally this! It's fascinating.

[DPRoberts]

Since the title of this thread includes "Analysis", I have an observation. Thanks to Meilingkie I think we have the subtext for Uchdorf's priesthood talk. He would naturally be more attuned to and concerned about changes in Europe. The fact that hundreds of units will be dissolved/merged means that there will be hundreds fewer branch presidents, bishops, relief society, elders quorum, young men, young women, and all manner of presidents and presidencies. I had to ask myself why something so thoroughly ingrained in a lifelong member such as myself, the notion of never aspiring to "callings" and considering all service equal in the eyes of god, required such a belabored treatment. Thanks to NOM I have better insight into what may be driving some of the messages.

[MoPag]

Finally we have a woman take the stand.

[MoPag]

Poor TSM.

[Red Ryder]

If only she could talk about raising stain resistant children... Think of the laundry savings!